7
   

Male Infant Circumcision? YES or NO

 
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 09:14 am
dlowan wrote:
You talking to smt there, joe, or all of us?

I encourage anyone who has an interest to respond. And you can, like fresco, feel free to add your own categories.
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 09:17 am
Miller wrote:
............Not according to the Biblical account of Abraham, who incidentally performed his own circumscion.


i am not renowned for my succeptability to 'biblical accounts'!
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 09:20 am
Miller wrote:
..........How could it be made illegal, when it's part of a religious ceremony? Would baptism also be made illegal, because of possible micro-organisms in the nonsterile baptismal water?


all laws are designed to prevent 'abuse'; when someone is being hurt, by a practice, the freedom in question is legally abandoned!
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 09:27 am
and i am fully in support of any legislation protecting the right of an individual to have control over the choice of what to do, or allow to be done to their own body; includes genital mutilation male/female; decision whether, or not to continue a pregnancy; even down to body piercing, and tatoos.
[and i disdain any group, or organization, that would attempt to 'program' an individual to accept such abuse, without the chance to make an informed decision!]
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 09:38 am
BoGoWo wrote:
Miller wrote:
..........How could it be made illegal, when it's part of a religious ceremony? Would baptism also be made illegal, because of possible micro-organisms in the nonsterile baptismal water?


all laws are designed to prevent 'abuse'; when someone is being hurt, by a practice, the freedom in question is legally abandoned!


But circumscion, practiced since the days of Abraham, is not considered to be "abuse". Female circumscion is abuse. If in doubt about the latter, see photos of the females, prior to surgery to repair their reproductive organs.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 09:40 am
BoGoWo wrote:
and i am fully in support of any legislation protecting the right of an individual to have control over the choice of what to do, or allow to be done to their own body; includes genital mutilation male/female; decision whether, or not to continue a pregnancy; even down to body piercing, and tatoos.
[and i disdain any group, or organization, that would attempt to 'program' an individual to accept such abuse, without the chance to make an informed decision!]


Relative to relgious circumscion ( Judaism+ Islam ), informed consent forms are not signed ( at least when performed outside of a hospital). Are these forms ever signed in a hospital setting? Cool
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 09:55 am
Miller wrote:
..........But circumscion, practiced since the days of Abraham, is not considered to be "abuse". Female circumscion is abuse. If in doubt about the latter, see photos of the females, prior to surgery to repair their reproductive organs.


none so blind, as those who 'will not' see!
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 09:58 am
Miller wrote:
.........Relative to relgious circumscion ( Judaism+ Islam ), informed consent forms are not signed ( at least when performed outside of a hospital). Are these forms ever signed in a hospital setting? Cool


how many newborn babies can write, and sign consent forms?

[legal informed consent age in Canada, is, i think 18 yrs.!]
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:07 am
BoGoWo I am closer to your opinion but you REALLY can't by any means compare male and female circumsicion
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:14 am
smt wrote:
7. Infant circumcision is unethical because it alters the basic function of a body part.
Agree [X] Disagree [ ] In this case, yes. When taken in the context of the lack of medical benefits and the severity of the change in function.


Nonsense, you have neither demonstrated that this is case, nor do i believe for a moment that you are either qualified to make a judgment anectdotally, nor likely to produce verifiable and verified research results to support such a contention. This is why even in your most reasonable voice, your crusade here has the taint of ill-considered obsession. This is larding your case without substantiation.

Edit: Consider that language here before you make an extravagent and unsupported statement: " . . . alters the basic function of a body part." Then consider how you have "upped the ante" with your extreme language: " . . . severity of the change of function."
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:17 am
I don't, they are not comparable; but both are flagrant abuses of individual rights!
I would even go so far as to suggest that we might concentrate on the abuse of young females first, as they have a longer, more gruesome history; but both are "wrong"!
[and by the way gang, the word is "circumcision" (spell check available!)]
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:19 am
BoGoWo wrote:
agreeing with all the above, i would add the following (assuming it has not already been mentioned):

The foreskin serves the purpose of protecting the sensitivity of the head of the penis; this sensitivity is lost when the foreskin is removed, reducing the
depth of feeling during intercourse.

The practice was initiated by religious elders, the motive for such being open to speculation.
Old men, preoccupied with minimizing any enjoyment to be had from sexual activities, especially by those more likely to be in a position to 'have' sexual activities!
Fill in the blanks.............



I have to say, Bo, this is the most eggregiously nonsensical statement i have read by you.
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:24 am
Hey, "egregiously"! Laughing (had to look it up, - was slowed by the two "g"s)

i'll take exceptionality, of any type! Cool

[but perhaps your reaction implies you are circumcised? - experience, experience!]

[the old priests 'thing' was a little 'tongue in cheek'; - my tongue, my cheek!! Shocked ]
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:27 am
Setanta
Yeah, whatever you said. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:28 am
Yes, I'm circumcised. My question would be, the source for your contention about sensitivity. Did you round up a batch of hetero- and homosexual men, half of each group circumcised, and not? Did your proceed from there to a balanced provision of sexual experience for every member, and have them rate their experience of glans sensitivity on a a scale of one to ten? Any such contention cannot be based on anything more than anectdotal information, i defy you to provide any means of measurement which would not be laughed out of court. I consider you position only slightly more defensible than the women who come here to rant, in that you do possess the equipment in question.

This sort of thing does not meet your usual standard of logical consideration, Bo.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:30 am
I will refrain from providing the ridicule that your quasi-conspiracy theory of the reason for "old men" ordering the circumcision of infants actually deserves.
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:40 am
Setanta wrote:
Yes, I'm circumcised. My question would be, the source for your contention about sensitivity. Did you round up a batch of hetero- and homosexual men, half of each group circumcised, and not? Did your proceed from there to a balanced provision of sexual experience for every member, and have them rate their experience of glans sensitivity on a a scale of one to ten? [er, no.... Rolling Eyes ]Any such contention cannot be based on anything more than anectdotal information, i defy you to provide any means of measurement which would not be laughed out of court. I consider you position only slightly more defensible than the women who come here to rant, in that you do possess the equipment in question. [yup!]

This sort of thing does not meet your usual standard of logical consideration, Bo.


Unfortunately, in this case 'bearing witness' is probably not going to suffice, i presume!

Setanta wrote:
I will refrain from providing the ridicule that your quasi-conspiracy theory of the reason for "old men" ordering the circumcision of infants actually deserves..


thank you i appreciate that! (and concur with your appraisal! :wink: )
[wouldn't want to have to defend that one! Rolling Eyes ]
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:57 am
Speaking of women and equipment . . . i advise you to have a care, sir, in that other thread, in offering your services to help Miss ehBeth find her "label" . . .
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 11:03 am
Have no fear sir!
I will ensure that my hands are very clean, (and warm) before i offer assistance! Cool
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 11:13 am
If your form were not so nebulous, the little doggie would be rearranging the topography of your butt . . .
0 Replies
 
 

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