Male Infant Circumcision? YES or NO

I would observe once again, as Joe has done, how SMT purports to know a great deal about an anatomical aparatus of which she is bereft. Anyone who has seen the foreskin of a newly circumcized infant (and i have known young mothers who keep it as a momento) will find the contention that it is "a large chunk of sensitive skin" only second in absurdity to comparing circumcision to the excision of labia majora.

It is this sort of heavily prejudicial (nearly hysterical, in my circumcized opinion) description which gets such opponents of circumcision branded as obsessed.

Yes, in a country with a lot of circumcision, the uncut penis does look odd. They look so to me, because most men in my cohort were circumcised.

Doubtless the circumcised penis looks similarly strange - so naked and defenceless - to those accustomed to turtlenecks.

Such aesthetic artefacts of local custom are surely not being advanced as arguments in this matter?

Mind you - I can't believe we are arguing about circumcision again!

This one is not nearly so hysterical, however, as was Kevie's Mum . . .

Nah.

For a thing which can be argued quite logically, it sure draws heat.

I can understand it being hard to argue logically for Jewish people...

Religious reasons are, by definition, not subject to rationality, unless one accepts the precondition of the religion being true - or understands the weight and familiar heft of tradition and culture, even if the religious belief is no longer strong...

Do any other cultures insist on it for religious reasons?

My mother, a nurse since 1939, combat veteran of the second world war, and for many years after the war, a delivery room nurse, would have a good laugh at all of this. In view of all the caterwauling the liddlies do when they're hauled out of their dark, warm digs and slapped on the ass, i doubt that the circumcision rises above the horizon of their indignation.

They do not get done until they have developed a false sense of security.

That's an interesting question about other cultures, Our Sweet, Cunning Coney (i'm gaggging, i'm gagging) . . . please take note of my reference above to the so-called heliolithic cultures. The author of that proposition held that the practice was common right across the map from the Atlantic shores of Africa to the Pacific shores of China. This would have been in the period anywhere from seven to twelve thousand years ago. The author held it to be part and parcel with tatooing and scarification as fetishistic self-mutilation, with the society acting as unsolicited agent for the newly born child in that particular circumstance. In The Outline of History, Wells cites other authorities who contend that self-mutilation is common to adolescents in all cultures. Given my conviction that right up to the present day, all societies are governed in the grosser aspects (patriotism, religion, national politics, sport, contract bridge . . . ) by adolescent values, the argument is the more compelling for me.

By the way, in non-ritualistic circumstances, for many decades, circumcision has been accomplished not by cutting, but by circulatory strangulation of the foreskin with a pair of small (wee, little ones) plastic rings.

Hopefully, this one trauma is not sufficient to cause lasting effects.

Major, or ongoing, trauma, it is rapidly emerging, does.

I think people are stretching for the kind of results they claim for it - it is developing a bit of a crazy-magnet feel, this thing.

Nonetheless, if asked, I would say that exposing a child to an, at best of doubtful utility, medically un-necessary surgical alteration of what, I am both told and observe, is an important bit of equipment to its possessor, without any possibility of informed consent, would seem to me a questionable enterprise ethically.

No one here seems willing to address the issue of smegma . . .

Hmmm - I have known of adolescents being exposed to mutilation as part of rites of initiation - but not so much, until now, of the same being so very self-imposed.

Well - fashions for tats and piercing have gone in and out, I guess. But - now does seem a real high point in terms of universality across class barriers!

I address, as you well know, the issue of smegma fearlessly.

I confess to a personal liking for a well cropped wienie - but I am told - and have occasionally found - that the other sort are amenable to effective cleaning.

One is always able to reject a dirty one.

And - a fella who finds his stubborn can, of course, always have it cropped, no?

I don't know that the ring thing is any less barbaric, by the way!!!

You are prosecuted for doing that to puppy dogs' tails here. It is said to be agonising.

I cannot imagine why one would want to abridge stories about puppies, but it is certainly nothing to object strenuously against.

grrrr

[quote="dlowanNo pain???? [/quote]

I've heard lots of anectdotal stories about circumcision with and without anesthesia. They hit the extremes on both sides, from a baby smiling all the way through the circ... to screaming and eventually going into shock.

I guess you could call it "circumcision roulette".

There was a study done on infant circumcision without anesthesia where the study was halted midway through due to the obvious pain the infants were experiencing. The American Academy of Pediatrics makes it clear that infants feel pain when being circumcised and they recommend that anesthesia always be used.

Oh come on, you'd take the same cheap shot, given the opportunity . . . and anyway, this is much more fun than discussing infant foreskins and obsessive crusaders . . .

This is a bit blunt and I'll probably get flamed:

All else being equal, I've heard that females can potentially gain more physical pleasure from the circumsized.

Females, your opinions?

Of course - but I can protest. I take pride in my spelling.

Of course, you come from a spelling-cised country....

You are apparently unfamiliar with the institution of the National Spelling Bee. There is actually a fascinating documentary which was done on the subject. It's a significant news event here.

Oh, and the spirit of Noah Webster asked me to stick my tongue out at you . . .