France Moves to Prevent Food Wastage

@Ionus,

We are supposed to buy locally produced items - milk from cows in our area etc etc.
That is in my opinion a good thing.
EU countries now export for example frozen chickens to some African states.
These frozen chickens are cheaper than the ones from an African chicken farmer.
This means that the African chicken farmer cannot sell his chickens and has to close his little/big farm.
He has no income and cannot suport his family and he tries to come to EU countries. A very dangerous solution.
The EU countries and Japan can afford enormous fishing ships and to fish along the African coast.
This means that an African fisher with his much smaller boat cannot compeat with EU and Japan.
So we here in EU buy fish from Africa fished by EU fishermen and not by Africans. What does that mean for the African. He has no income, he cannot support his family - so he gets on his very very dangerous way to EU countries in the hope a better future.
On the other hand we are kind people and send our used T-shirts and jeans to Africa. We give them away free with the result that the Africans cannot sell their cloth as much as they should.
So the little cloth store has to close and........

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@saab,

Regarding the fishery in (mainly West-) African waters: mos of the ships come from Russia, China, Korea and Belize.
The local fishermen don't have vessel which can be used outside 12-13 mile fishing limit, or can't handle ashore their own larger factory trawlers, like Mauretania.

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@saab,

Thanks....I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me . Im staggered that the EU can produce chickens for sale in Africa cheaper than the Africans . Are they subsidised in the EU ?

You seem to be rather knowledgeable about this . It is a long way from here, and this sort of info I like but it is not easily obtainable .

There is a bike program for Africa where they gave away bikes but people wouldnt take care of them, so they charge them for a cheap bike and they look after it because they had to buy it .

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@Walter Hinteler,

Wouldnt those boats be illegally fishing ?

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Wouldnt those boats be illegally fishing ?

Why?

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@Walter Hinteler,

In another countries territorial waters . We have problems with illegal fishing boats all the time . Go to any northern ports and there are Indonesian fishing boats lying on the beaches, waiting to be sold or destroyed . We used to gaol the fishermen but that had no effect on their rich bosses .

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

In another countries territorial waters .

The border of territorial waters is 12 nm away from the land.

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@Walter Hinteler,

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@Walter Hinteler,

http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/marine/jurisdiction/maritime-boundary-definitions#heading-7

Quote:

The Australian Fishing Zone (AFZ) is defined as follows in the Fisheries Management Act 1991 (FMA) (including the amendments to that Act made by the Maritime Legislation Amendment Act 1994).

Australian Fishing Zone means:

The waters adjacent to Australia within the outer limits of the exclusive economic zone; and
The waters adjacent to each external territory within the outer limits of the exclusive economic zone;
but does not include:
Coastal waters of, or waters within the limits of, a State or internal Territory; or
Waters that are 'excepted waters'

Our economic zone is usually 200NM . Our Territorial Sea is usually 12NM .

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Our economic zone is usually 200NM . Our Territorial Sea is usually 12NM .

I wasn't referring to Australia.
The Territorial Sea usually 12 nm since the 1980's. (Before it was 3 nm)

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Minimizing the waste of food (or anything else) is something that can be done by anyone, anywhere and at any time. Indeed Walters chart above indicating the relative components of waste at various stages of production, distribution and consumption in various regions of the world has rather obvious explanations based on the objective conditions in eaxh region. Reducing wastage is accomplished by changing those conditions and the voluntary actions of individual prople who benefit from them.

I believe the truly significant element of this story, that has so far been ignored by all here is wehether such virtuous practices should be mandated by law. Contemporary political thinking (in the U.S. at least) appears in many ways to be drifting toward the naive notion that anything that is deemed to be desirable or beneficial must necessarily by made compulsory. I believe that is a very dangerous idea, and prefer freedom with all its waste and inevitable missteps by individuals who can learn through the process of doing them. Perfecting the ant hill is not, in my view a desirable undertaking.

Hunger is far more often a result of factors such as poor production techniques and inadequate distribution systems than it is of wasteage or the lack of better available production methods. Many technoloigical developments promise huge increases in the availability of food, and they are often those that are most vigorously resisted by those who wish to impose their preferences and prejudices on others by ever more intrusive law and regulation.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I believe the truly significant element of this story, that has so far been ignored by all here is wehether such virtuous practices should be mandated by law. Contemporary political thinking (in the U.S. at least) appears in many ways to be drifting toward the naive notion that anything that is deemed to be desirable or beneficial must necessarily by made compulsory. I believe that is a very dangerous idea, and prefer freedom with all its waste and inevitable missteps by individuals who can learn through the process of doing them. Perfecting the ant hill is not, in my view a desirable undertaking.

These amendments to the law were made unanimously in French parliament - from the extreme left to the extreme right.

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@Walter Hinteler,

So what? I disagreee with them all. I made that clear in my statement above.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

So what? I disagreee with them all. I made that clear in my statement above.

I've read it. But you aren't French, isn't it? They didn't represent you or your opinion.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I agree. I even believe the vote count in France was honestly taken. My point was, very clearly I believe, my opposition to a growing inclination to make what is merely desireable compulsory under the law. It is increasingly evident in my country, and apparently others as well. I find that to be both unwise and unfortunate.

I am amazed that so soon after the great effort expended in overcoming the tyrannies of the left and the right, which wreaked such havoc, destruction and human suffering in the last century, we are so soon again seeking the perfection of human life by such authoritarian methods. I'm also aware of the hypocrisy involved in the somewhat fanatic (and certainly unscientific) opposition by many of the same political forces that seek to improve our lives by authoritariuan compulsion to numerous scientific innovations that promise to significantly increase food production in precisely the areas that need it most.

I believe that is a very reasonable position on the matter. You certainly don't have to agree, but it does merit serious consideration.

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@georgeob1,

Do you have any recommendations to prevent waste ? Otherwise the rich will waste and the poor will starve . Arent governments there to organise for the betterment of all ? So I don't see how it is that great an inconvenience to pass laws like this . You seem to have principles that prevent practicality .

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The councillor whose campaign against food waste led to a law forcing French supermarkets to donate unwanted food to charity has set his sights on getting similar legislation passed globally.
Report in English by The Guardian

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Do you have any recommendations to prevent waste ? Otherwise the rich will waste and the poor will starve . Arent governments there to organise for the betterment of all ? So I don't see how it is that great an inconvenience to pass laws like this . You seem to have principles that prevent practicality .

I believe the evidence is very ample that government-mandated programs such as this are generally ineffective and replete with usually unforseen side effects that often tend to create effects quite the opposite of those intended. Meanwhile other government programs, also designed to protect us from imagined evils, prohibit scientific innovations that promise to significantly increase the production of food crops in areas that need them the most.

The record of recvent history indicates that much more human suffering and starvation has been the result of excessive government controls that had the, probably unintended, side effect of curtailing the production of food and wealth, than any excessive consumption or waste by the rich. Consider the poverty and starvation attendant to Cultural Revolution in China; contemporary Zimbabwe; or even the forced collectivization of agriculture in ther Soviet Union. All of these grotesque cruelties resulted from government programs organized as you put it "for the betterment of all".

Can you offer us any practical demonstration (other than the sweeping generalities you offered above) that excessive consumption or waste of food by the rich is a proximate cause for the starvation of others? I'll agree that the image of the contrast is striking, but that does not constitute a cause.

France is a country well-endowed with rich agricultural potential. French farmers are well subsidized by the EU and as a result production is generally highly regulated already. The French economy is experiencing rather sclerotic growth under a regulatory regime also designed for the "betterment of all". This does not inspire belief in the wisdom of the proponents of addirional regulsation of human behavior there. There may well be other bureaucratic motives behind the proposed law.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

The councillor whose campaign against food waste led to a law forcing French supermarkets to donate unwanted food to charity has set his sights on getting similar legislation passed globally.
Report in English by The Guardian

Not very surprising. Such authoritarian dreamers often seek universal application of their obsessions. Perhaps he is is an emerging French Savonarola. They often meet bad ends.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

There may well be other bureaucratic motives behind the proposed law.

It isn't a "proposed law" but the amendment ("l'amendement Goulet") to an already existing law ("loi macron"). Since it went through both parliamentary chambers (passed the Senate already in April)...
... it is French law.

1 Reply

France Moves to Prevent Food Wastage

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