are we really that naive?

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

That train has already left the station.

Yes in deed. And we all better hope it will arrive in a next stop safely, without causing a train wreck!

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@andy31,

first, it's djjd62

second why drag frank into it, it was my question

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@djjd62,

Yes, sorry. My bet. It is djjd62.

Well to answer your question I'll say.. yeah sure! I absolutely agree with you 100%. If we let gays to get married, why not let people to marry horse or a toaster.. or, I got one, wheelchair... yeah! some people are stuck on it anyways, that will only make sense!

Good point djjd62!

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@Frank Apisa,

Here's the problem...the Family Law Court has told me that if I live with a woman, we cook together, our washing is done together, then we are defacto married . If I say we didnt have sex and she says we did, she gets believed . The relationship has to be different for same sex couples or we will be having nightmares sorting out any common living arrangements . It is essential
for gays to have some legal arrangement but marriage is already taken . Claiming marriage from men and women is part of their living in denial .

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

a minority of the population.....do not like it

Do you have any polls to show that ? I have seen polls that show the majority of homosexuals dont want marriage, they want legal recognition of their status as a couple so they can have basic rights, such as next of kin status .

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@djjd62,

Quote:

why not let somebody marry a horse or a toaster, how does that affect me or you

Butterfly effect .

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
a minority of the population.....do not like it
Do you have any polls to show that ? I have seen polls that show the majority of homosexuals dont want marriage, they want legal recognition of their status as a couple so they can have basic rights, such as next of kin status .

Public opinion in the United States shows majority support for the legal recognition of same-sex marriage. This support has remained above 50% consistently in opinion polls since 2010,[1] after having increased steadily for more than a decade.[2][3][4][5] An August 2010 CNN poll became the first national poll to show majority support for same-sex marriage,[6] with nearly all subsequent polls showing majority support.[7][8] Support for same-sex marriage generally correlates with younger age (younger than 50),[9] higher education,[10] and residence in the Northeast, West Coast[11] and some parts of the Midwest. Women are also more likely to be in support than men.[12][13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States

Americans' support for the law recognizing same-sex marriages as legally valid has increased yet again, now at 55%. Marriage equality advocates have had a string of legal successes over the past year, most recently this week in Pennsylvania and Oregon where federal judges struck down bans on gay marriage.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/169640/sex-marriage-support-reaches-new-high.aspx

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@Frank Apisa,

So people like you have done an excellent job of changing people's minds . Dont know if I would be proud of that . Doesnt that place an awful lot of pressure on you being right because we wont be able to recork the bottle .

I'm waiting on your reply to my post above http://able2know.org/topic/272076-8#post-5934004

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@Ionus,

I live in New Jersey. Nancy and I have lived together for 33 years...living exactly as a married couple...except that no court, state, or church has ever "blessed" our arrangement.

We are not "de facto" married.

There are only a few jurisdictions in the United States that recognize "common law marriage"...and even in them, the requirements are rather complicated and involve INTENT...as well as living arrangements.

I'm not sure of your point.

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

So people like you have done an excellent job of changing people's minds . Dont know if I would be proud of that . Doesnt that place an awful lot of pressure on you being right because we wont be able to recork the bottle .

No reason for you to be proud of what you suppose I have done, Ionus. And fact is, I have not done that much...except to advocate for a right people say they want.

Quote:

I'm waiting on your reply to my post above http://able2know.org/topic/272076-8#post-5934004

Done!

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@Frank Apisa,

In Australia, the Commonwealth has jurisdiction over marriage because it is a international responsibility . The description I gave was of a conversation between me and a Family Court Registrar .

Are you familiar with the law in all USA states regarding defacto marriage ?

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

In Australia, the Commonwealth has jurisdiction over marriage because it is a international responsibility . The description I gave was of a conversation between me and a Family Court Registrar .

Are you familiar with the law in all USA states regarding defacto marriage ?

Look it up in Google. I once worked for the Social Security Administration...and had to certify or deny (mostly deny) many common law marriage requests.

There are only a few states in the US who allow (and recognize) common law marriages...and the requirement, as I said, are more than just cohabitation. Intent to be married is a requirement in most states...as I remember it.

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@Frank Apisa,

It would be a nightmare here as I explained . The Libbies have got any co-habitation situation to be recognised as a defacto if the woman says it is... it will be a real mess if men can not co-habitate together without someone claiming a defacto when they split . Or the Libbies will have to give up their hard won rights... Laughing

like that will happen .

So whats wrong with a separate legal agreement for homosexual couples ? Are they trying to prove they are normal ?

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@Ionus,

Gays want the right to marry. There is no compelling reason to deny them that right...except for bias and prejudice.

Left handers do not have to "prove they are normal." Neither should gays.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

There is no compelling reason to deny them that right

Who says marriage is a right ?

Quote:

except for bias and prejudice.

There is no compelling reason to upset 45% of the community except for bias and prejudice . Homophiles .

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/27/same-sex-marriage-research/2465023/

Quote:

"Based on our findings, my observation is that LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) people strongly support the principle of marriage equality, and for the most part they think it is a proper focus for the LGBT rights movement. But at the level of personal experience and desires, they are more ambivalent," she says.

So...they want it because it seems like a right, but not right for them . They want acceptance as normal, a separate issue .

Quote:

"I wish that so much didn't depend on marital status in our society -- whether you can be with the person you love, what taxes you pay, whether you get health insurance," she says.

THAT is the problem in a nutshell...why cant they have a separate status that is not called marriage ?

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
There is no compelling reason to deny them that right
Who says marriage is a right ?

In our country...the law says it. It defines it...and more and more it is being extended to gays.

Quote:

Quote:
except for bias and prejudice.
There is no compelling reason to upset 45% of the community except for bias and prejudice . Homophiles .

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/27/same-sex-marriage-research/2465023/

Some gays do not want to "marry." Fine...they should not "marry." Nancy and I do not want to "marry"...and we haven't. That is no reason to deny others the right to marry.

Quote:

Quote:
"Based on our findings, my observation is that LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) people strongly support the principle of marriage equality, and for the most part they think it is a proper focus for the LGBT rights movement. But at the level of personal experience and desires, they are more ambivalent," she says.
So...they want it because it seems like a right, but not right for them . They want acceptance as normal, a separate issue .

I have no idea of what you are saying there. Some gays want to marry...and there is no compelling reason to deny them the right to do so.

Quote:

Quote:
"I wish that so much didn't depend on marital status in our society -- whether you can be with the person you love, what taxes you pay, whether you get health insurance," she says.
THAT is the problem in a nutshell...why cant they have a separate status that is not called marriage ?

They can...and they reject it. And here, the majority is favoring their right to marry.

What is your problem with that?

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@andy31,

At one time the standard vow, as pronounced by the person performing the marriage ceremony, was "I now pronounce you Man and wife."

Not only do many couples on many occasions write their own vows "I now pronounce you man and wife is no longer said. It has been replaced with I now pronounce you Husband and wife" Why do you think that is?

I think it is because we can no longer look at women as property.
We are constantly making changes to correct injustices.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

In our country...the law says it. It defines it..

My understanding is the 14th amendment which says marriage is a civil right but clearly the courts were thinking of a man and a woman . Hardly good legal on your part .

Quote:

Quote:
why cant they have a separate status that is not called marriage ?
They can...and they reject it. And here, the majority is favoring their right to marry.

Then they are trying to prove they are normal when in fact they aren't . They are fighting reality . The majority think they will not need marriage . This is just another "we're here. we're queer", get used to it .

Quote:

Quote:
So...they want it because it seems like a right, but not right for them . They want acceptance as normal, a separate issue .
I have no idea of what you are saying there.

Then ask a specific question .

Its a modern trend to try to prove we are very nice people in a post-Nazi world . There is a whole competition out there to out do each other, to be greener, to be less racist, to be a homophile, all the while criticising anyone who disagrees .

Just as a sideline, what will happen when our gay couple go to a Muslim country and get arrested ? Other countries may be forced to not recognise marriages from the USA .

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
In our country...the law says it. It defines it..
My understanding is the 14th amendment which says marriage is a civil right but clearly the courts were thinking of a man and a woman . Hardly good legal on your part .

Absolute, abject nonsense on your part. Not worthy of a reasonable reply.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
why cant they have a separate status that is not called marriage ?
They can...and they reject it. And here, the majority is favoring their right to marry.
Then they are trying to prove they are normal when in fact they aren't . They are fighting reality . The majority think they will not need marriage . This is just another "we're here. we're queer", get used to it .

Being left handed is not normal. Being 6'3" tall is not normal. Having an IQ of 160 is not normal.

Get off the "not normal" nonsense.

Nobody thinks gays "need" marriage...in fact, nobody thinks straights "need" marriage.

What is your point?

Quote:

Quote:
Quote:
So...they want it because it seems like a right, but not right for them . They want acceptance as normal, a separate issue .
I have no idea of what you are saying there.
Then ask a specific question .

No. If you want to make yourself understood...do so.

Quote:

Its a modern trend to try to prove we are very nice people in a post-Nazi world . There is a whole competition out there to out do each other, to be greener, to be less racist, to be a homophile, all the while criticising anyone who disagrees .

Just as a sideline, what will happen when our gay couple go to a Muslim country and get arrested ? Other countries may be forced to not recognise marriages from the USA .

are we really that naive?

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