Helen
Anon is not the only one most pleased to see you here. I've done a quick count and there are at least five of us.
Thank you both, Anon and Blatham, plus whoever the other five may be. Data decompression is not an option - Mackiernan's reports are still classified (from 1940's) so subsequent data must of necessity wait.
What little have to say as first-hand knowledge, with due deference to those wounded in Vietnam, like Anon, to those still suffering from the after-effects of that combat (some of whom are personal friends, still alive, and therefore remaining anonymous) and the memory of our dead, is my personal recollection of a conversation with the late widow of Gen. MacArthur, whom I met in the late 1960s at her home in the Waldorf Towers in New York, accompanying my late uncle, a senior NATO general, who went to pay his respects to Gen. MacArthur's widow.
The lady was adamant in her conviction that the 2 points (strategic and tactical) made by her late husband were the very points he tried to impress on Kennedy when invited to the White House - which, the lady observed with some pique, never happened in the 8 years Eisenhower was president.
Whether a tape of that conversation still exists in the Kennedy archives I've no way of knowing. Similarly have no clue whether those 2 points made by Gen. MacArthur were publicized elsewhere. But can vouch for what little I did hear personally - and would be happy to respond to any historians' enquiries if the contents of the MacArthur-Kennedy conversation aren't traceable elsewhere.
For all else - pleading guilty to Anon's charge of saying not much, then fleeing <G>
Anon says:
Quote:They told me, go in the army or go to jail. I went into the army.
It was the most popular minor sentences handed out in the late 60's. Ran into many, many with that sentence. Would have probably got that myself if I hadn't already volunteered for the draft - got a sentence reduced as the result!
BTW, Anon, Timber (and anyone else who served) - will you tell us who you were with and times of service. I was with:
"D" Company, 1st of the 7th Cavalry, 3rd Brigade, 1st Air Cavalry Division (Air Mobile) - June 13th 1969-June 13th 1970. "Garry Owens"
Helen
Actually, so far, it's five inclusive, but I'm sure there'll be more if you stick around and stop whining about that damned airplane.
BillW:
I was always assigned with the Computer Support Group, CincPac ... I haven't looked at that stuff since I used my VA benefits to buy a house in 1973. It's buried in the garage, I'll have to look at it and tell you what Group the TDY in Nam was. Now you've done it, I'll have to clean the garage. JayBea has been after me to do that for years!
Anon
Helen:
You can't run away from me you know, I have your cell phone
Unless you've changed the number from last year! It really is a delight to see you, don't be a stranger!!
Yours,
Anon
P.S. Are you going to dress in that snappy ranger outfit again when you took over the Military Tribunal ?? I LOVE a lady in uniform! :wink:
I have been following this thread thanks to Anon's invite and finally have something to say, to him and also edgarblythe and dyslexia, collectively:
I've been reading your writings going back a couple of years on Abuzz, and have smiled several times at your sly wit, insightful commentary, and in your case edgar, your moving poetry.
I have no personal experience with this war (or any other, as anything more than a passionate observer). In '68, the year the country blew up, I was ten years old. I don't remember being upset over anything, except perhaps that my Little League team was lousy and I didn't get to play enough. In the summer of 1969 I was spending my first nights away from home, at Scout camp. I was the Tenderest foot anyone ever saw. I can barely remember seeing the KIA stats on television, and don't recall having any kind of reaction about them.
'Nam didn't mean diddley to me personally, until about '72, when my older brother (he was coming of age) came home one day all excited that the draft had been stopped. I recall thinking, so what? He'd be a pussy of a soldier anyway...
Everything I know about that time I've read -- in books, magazines, online. The one that impacted me the most was Neil Sheehan's "A Bright, Shining Lie".
I've watched all the movies.
I don't even know many vets that have told me about their experiences.
Except y'all.
I just want the three of you fellows to know that I cannot express to you how much I would rather you have had MY experiences instead of the ones you had. Mind you, I am not offering to trade...just substitute.
You have all the respect, and gratitude, and honor, that one selfish little kid in the late '60s can muster.
It's not enough, I know. But it's all I got.
BillW,
...You mention minor sentences. I was in basic with a youngster who had killed his step-father, and got that choice. I didn't realize that practice was so widespread.
Thanks I'm sure from all of those mentioned as well as from all who served, PDiddie. That sort of thing means a lot more than probably you can imagine.
timber
pdiddie: thats mostly likely the kindest works i have heard in the last 38 yrs.
Wups!
I wasn't going to jail
What I meant was that if you evaded the draft, you went to jail for not signing up
Nah, I was a Systems Programmer with Pacific Intermountain Express in Oakland, California. The reason I got drafted was that I went through a divorce, and the minute the divorce papers were signed, I had a notice to show up for a medical exam. That was a thrill. I was tempted to tell them I was a homosexual, but didn't think it would pass since I had two kids and an ex-wife
The only crime I committed was getting a divorce three years too soon
Anon
Pdiddie:
I'm with the troops, thank you very much! You da man!!
Anon
Thanks Pdiddie, Support is a wonderful thing. I've had a number of support groups along the way.
booman, I don't think that murder was one of the "minor" crimes I had in mind. Actually, I remember a grand theft auto also, which I wouldn't consider minor and a number of breaking and entering and robberies.
I remember the guy with grand theft auto told a story during guard duty one night. He was betting his buddy he could steal a car in less than a minute - his buddy, of course said "no way". He picked up a brick, smashed the window, ripped the wires out of the steering column, crossed them and was off in a flash.
Another buddy was slowly sending parts to an M60 machine gun home. Every chance he got, he took automatic mechanisms out of M16's and shipped them home.
What a life!
A digression, but amusingly related...
My Dad was an attorney in the military judicial system. As Base Legal Officer it once fell his lot, under the UCMJ, to defend a quartermaster who had in fact shipped an entire jeep, carton by carton, over a period of several months, to his brother in West Virginia. The Jeep had been involved in an unrelated crime, and due to its unmistakeable military appearance a concerted effort was made by civilian law enforcement in the matter of determining the unregistered vehicle's true origin. Otherwise, the incident no doubt would have gone unnoticed.
timber
Timber:
That's hilarious! After basic ... The very first place I was assigned (I was assigned a CAS, Civilian Acquired Skill) was Ft. Lee, Va., Home of the QuarterMaster Corp. We were writing computer training simulations for the butter-stripers to practice on for the supply systems. The QuarterMasters in Vietnam were stealing us blind for the black market there. I was one of the principal designers of the auditing system that was being set up to establish some seconday control. That's how I ended up in Nam !!!
Small world, and getting smaller, isn't it!!
Anon
Would you guys and gals tell me what you think of Rumsfeld's comment earlier this week about 'Nam draftees?
Here's a cut and paste:
The disadvantages to the individuals so brought in are notable. If you think back to when we had the draft, people were brought in; they were paid some fraction of what they could make in the civilian manpower market because they were without choices. Big categories were exempted -- people that were in college, people that were teaching, people that were married. It varied from time to time, but there were all kinds of exemptions. And what was left was sucked into the intake, trained for a period of months, and then went out, adding no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time, because the churning that took place, it took enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone.
What do I think, well I do not want to be ejected from A2k so I will defer posting what I really thing. Actually I heard the statment on TV and could not believe my ears. But his follow up comment was that now that military salaries are comparable with the private sector and there is more rention the military does not need to draft.
Well a peace time military is a horse of a different color that is for sure. The Gulf war according to my relatives that fought in WWII and Korea was just a minor battle compared to a real war. I think we will have to wait and see what happens when the new mechanized and efficient military faces hand to hand combat in the streets of Baghdad.
i dont think rummy would like to see me in a dark alley
