So, Rummy was only talking about those draftees that went to Canada or actually dropped to their knees during there induction interview. Oh, I understand now. Why didn't he say that. He has had two chances now and I must get his real intentions on A2K. Thanks HofT, I do appreciate it!
BTW, he still scares me to death and pisses me off to the max!
HOfT them's not mountains, them's not even foothills, this is colorado, them's just rocks. (also called the Morrison fault)
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:29 pm Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ho Chin Mihn
Vietnam was French Indo-China. It was a French colony. Politically, we were on the side of France. Ho Chin Minh made a deal with the US. He would use his soldiers as an ally of the US against Japan. In return, after the war, the US would support the Vietnamese' wish to be free of French domination.
In 1944, Life magazine had a cover photo of American allies that included Ho Chin Minh and General MacArthur. Unfortunately FDR died and Truman wanted no part of being a spokesmand for a communist revolutionary. And so began the long French-Indo China war ended in ignominy for the French in Dien Bien Phu. So then we took our turn.
Post Script: I was working as a bank guard when we had about 700 advisors in Vietnam. During a coffee break, I told the dozen or so coffee breakers that the historian Henry Steele Commager cautioned that if we weren't willing to put five million men on the Indo-China peninsula, we shouldn't put five men on. There was a young bank employee who was a veteran who had recently served in Vietnam. He replied that Commager was wrong and that "when we throw five thousand marines in there, those gooks won't know what hit them."
Some things you never forget. I joined the anti-war movement.Back to top
Hi, BillyFalcon, and welcome aboard. Your coffeebreak annecdote is telling, and summarizes the mindset of some of the folks who continued to stir that pot. What I see to be the proximate causes of America's South East Asian debacle are micromanagement and the "Graduated Response Doctrine".
By engaging in a policy of ceaseless provocation and escalation, The US allowed herself to be sucked into an unwinnable war of attrition. Ol' Henry Steele had the right idea. We ceded initiative to The Enemy, and harvested the expected fruits of our own sowing.
timber
Welcome to A2K BillyFalcon..
Stick around and look, listen and join in. Thanks for your story.
Timber, I agree re the micromgt. That was the most ridiculous thing I ever witnessed.
The sudden increased birthrate during and immediately after WWII surely affected the Vietnam situation. Any comments as to the reason why??
Slightly off topic but related. I am reminded of one of my favorite headlines. It was in "The San Antonio Light" I believe in the 50's. "U.S. PLANES IN INDO War". No, we did not get an early start. They referred to B-26's that we had given to the French.
We did more than give the B-26s to The French ... we trained their pilots and provided heavy material and technical support.
timber
guys
Thought this book review might be of interest to you.
'The Education of Lieutenant Kerrey': A Dark Night in Vietnam
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/26/books/review/26STEWART.html
you guys are all way over my head with this stuff, i was just another grunt and knew pretty much nothing.
blatham, I thought it was interesting when it was a news item. Still think it interesting. It's one of those curious items which will never have a bottom line. Looks to me like Vistica is just trying to make a buck before it completely disappears.
danon
Actually, it's not a story I'm familiar with and I didn't read the piece, merely passed it on in case it might have been of interest.
Blatham:
Hey Mr. Forum Guide ... He who knows all ...
Is there an easy way to print this entire topic out so I can catch up? My work life has entirely destroyed my able time. I hate it when real life interrupts my debate time!
Anon
Anon, over on the bottom right is a
button. Have plenty of paper loaded ... this is a respectably lengthed thread
timber
Timber:
Crimeny!
I get blinder and more unconcious by the moment. I think I was permanently brain killed in that accident last year!
Duuuuuhhhh!!!!
By the way, I have sent a message to your MSN Messenger. I have news about my midwest trip!
Anon
>>>>> Zap notice! Anon, drop the "duh!"; am the one and only Valley Girl on this thread and claim copyright! Here's a link somebody sent me - not sure how legit it is:
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Default.htm
Will be overseas for a while and not posting; keep well, y'all.
HoT
Best, friend. Don't forget...Chicago.
PDiddie, I feel that Rumsfeld's Draftee Remarks were ill considered and poorly phrased. The training of a recruit requires the better part of a year, and the trained recruit is not "Up to speed" without several more months of field experience. A massive investment in 2-year conscripts simply was not good business. By the time that recruit is fully capable of providing a return on the investment made, that recruit finishes his military obligation. In WWII, and to a lesser extent in Korea, the draftees stuck around "For The Duration", not for a pre-set period of time, and provided substantial return on investment. In Vietnam, great expense was borne to accommodate a conscript military, and the effort proved unrewarding. Rummy said it poorly, but what he said was true. He did not malign draftees, he maligned The Draft, and rightly so. For a short war, it just doesn't pay.
timber
Is Anon OK? His name is no longer a clickable link on this site.
Pls, info! Thanks.
