"Men's Rights" propaganda posters from yesteryear

I don't think that women need different rights in the "western world" than anywhere else.

I am 100% sure that you have no idea at all about I care and about not. Especially not, how I deal with human rights or what I think and do about political correctness.

There's a problem for starters . Women elsewhere have it bloody hard . Poverty amplifies the workload of women . Western women are too rich . They have to look for causes, nothing is obvious any more .

Thank you Walter. At least someone agrees with me.

Hint: Don't say a single good word about women on this forum. Max will have a **** fit if you do.

Explaining my response:
I do think [sic! that's what you asked for] that women in the western world don't need different rights than anywhere else. The question was not about how the life of women is, what they own, about their workload etc

You are engaging with the easy target, Walter... how about answering the two specific issues about equality that I raised.

Do you agree that men and women should be considered equally in custody disputes?

Do you agree that people should get the same prison sentences for the same crimes, and that the gender or race of the perpetrator (or victim) should be irrelevant?

Try me Edgar... I have already said that woman should be given equal rights and equal opportunities to men. I am perfectly able to say good things about women and to support woman's rights. Are you able to do the same for men's rights?

I think that is the issue. Your personal attack is unwarranted.

This is your only comment . Never-mind that I was guilty before the trial, never mind that I was publicly humiliated for something I had not done, never-mind the female was assumed to be a victim and given special treatment, never-mind that the accuracy of convictions is beyond human achievement, just try and emasculate me by suggesting it was being yelled at that was the real problem . If you had of comprehended it properly, you would have realised that human rights were being violated .

Never-mind that this women movement is depriving boys and girls of a father . Never-mind that the court does not look for the best parent but in almost all cases gives the children to the mother, I was yelled at . Very good for someone accusing others of having blinkers on .

So what does your statement say to you ?

Then the judgement was null and void. If human rights are being violated, the next higher court would reverse the judgement.(At least here. But generally family judges are well trained in human rights.)

I love irony.

This is an attack thread against "Men's rights" (as is made clear in the title). And, people have come here to do just that. I don't see a single good word about women on this forum from anyone.... except me.

You can support both women's rights and men's rights. That is what I am doing. It is too bad that bothers you Edgar.

Pardon me for being uppity, but I believe this topic was presented to show how hysterical people became over the issue of giving women the right to vote. Im unaware of any attempt to deny men their right to vote. It's not my problem that you see everything as an attack on men. And as far as reasoned, respectful discussions......this is your mantra. If you ever even present a slight hint that you are capable of a little reasoned, respectful discussion about anything other than men and women and how women are trying to subjugate men, maybe. Frankly, you appear to be too emotional to me. You are too young, I guess, your child custody issue is too painful for you, and I can understand how important that is to you. If the mother of your child is unfit, you need to pursue legal remedy. I can't possibly take sides on a custody issue regarding two people I don't know.

If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that even if I were to nominate you for father of the year, you will not be satisfied.

And one other thing, aren't you the one who called Setanta out for not referring to his personal relationship as 'getting pussy'? I find that to be crude and coarse. People who need to justify crude references to women usually aren't the guys Im interested in having a reasoned, respectful discussion because they usually can't hold up their end of reasoned and respectful.

Frankly, do you even know why you want to discuss this issue with me??? If you're under the misconception that I think everything in life is fair and how it should be, well what can I say. You can't possibly expect me to explain my entire life to satisfy your need to feel superior. You seem like an earnest enough young man, but life is short and I don't want to waste the rest of mine satisfying your nosiness.

The only reason I listed the 19th amendment was because many people are unaware that women have only had the right to vote since 1920. I thought it as important to make that remark so others wouldn't assume the cartoons were addressing womens interest in attending Universities or owning property in their own right. Even as late as 1973, when we applied for our first mortgage the bank refused to consider my salary, only my husband. Im sure that sounds nuts to a lot of people now, but thats just the was it was back then.

The 19th amendment gave women the right to vote, it didn't prevent men from enjoying any of the rights we enjoy in this country.

Thank you for engaging in a reasonable way Glitterbag.

The reason this thread is an attack is that it draws an unfair connection between a group of people in the 21st century with a group of people from 100 years ago. There is almost no one today who is seriously suggesting that women shouldn't have the right to vote. This is a question that was settled almost 100 years ago and is not even controversial now.

As I pointed out, if you are going to draw comparisons between Men's rights supporters and people from 100 years ago, then you can also draw comparisons between Woman's rights supporters and people from 100 years ago. Of course if these comparisons are correct than people like me who support both woman's rights and men's rights are doubly bad.

But these are not valid comparisons... they are bogus.

You are historically incorrect... suffragette's did loudly protest the vote being given to Black Men, often in the most racist of terms. Not that it matters, but to say that suffragettes never tried to deny the vote to anyone is historically incorrect.

I am arguing for equality. Women should be given rights. Men should be given rights. I have listed in this thread a couple of ways I think that each of these statements are relevant to modern America. Equality means equality.

Let me clear up a few random points in your post.

- The use of the word "uppity" is cute. I see what you did there. I am being just as uppity as you are and I am glad that you and I can each express our opinions respectfully.

- I didn't initiate the use of the phrase "getting pussy", I am pretty sure Setanta used it before I did. And I agree it is crude. My point on that thread was against political rectitude.

- I have no need to feel superior any more than you do. Equality is fine.

- I support the 19th amendment. I agree with you completely. The 19th amendment was a great thing for this country.

Lets clear up a few misconceptions:

I didn't bring up the racist comments from white women in the early 20th century. Mercifully, I was not familiar with those quotes, but unfortunately many women and men had shameful views regarding race at ha time. In some places those views still exist, much to our nations shame. As far as historically correct, the quotes provided although disgraceful didn't strike me as an effort to strip all men from being able to vote. Those old racists may not have like the idea of black people having any rights at all, but I think their main goal was to attain voting rights for women. Im unaware of any effort by women in 1920 to organize voting rights repeal for black people. However, after the 15th amendment ratified Feb 3, 1870, white racists of both genders made it incredibly difficult for black citizens to even register to vote.

Much like our shameful racist ancestors, in recent years, people who spit in the face of democracy seek to prevent the poor and many others from registering to vote, to silence them. By the way, we are currently living in the yea 2015.

I do know who brought up the vulgar term, but you were the only man to ask Setanta such a rude question. Frankly, you made it personal, and in my experience men who feel entitled to address another man publicly in such a vulgar manner are coarse and crude. Frankly, that particular vulgarity was around before my great great grandparents were born. No one made you decide to use it.

My goal was to completely disengage from you, apparently I wasn't successful. As a woman who experienced some of the backlash for being hired and using skills normally performed only by men, I see those pictures/cartoons as dead on concerning the disrespect voiced back in the 70's and currently still in use by men who cannot shake the idea that women have organized to trivialize men. The only thing different is the clothing.

I really don't have enough spare time to correct every misconception or mischaracterization of my views you cook up. You are exhausting, but not because your arguments are rational and respectful, you exhaust me because you never really comprehend what you read. Let me ask you respectfully, to go pick a rational and respectful clusterfreep with someone who actually is willing to beat their head against a wall. I am not a miracle worker and I do not wish to tutor, or edit you.

Holy mother of God, give me strength.

That's a bit funny. If you wanted to disengage from me, you wouldn't have responded. There is no reason you needed to write such a well-thought out response. Apparently there is at least a part of you that wants a reasonable discussion.

Having respectful discussions with intelligent people who look at things from a different perspective is what I most enjoy. Here's hoping you keep responding.

Let's answer your points.

Again, I think the race thing is a tangent. You are right, there are no examples of suffragette's wanting to deny the right of White men to vote. I brought this up as an example of how things said nearly 100 years ago shouldn't be used to tar people in the 21st century with views they don't hold.

Setanta and I have been at it for a long time, he has made it personal repeatedly. This has nothing to with this thread. You could use this as an excuse to not respond, but what it the point? You don't need an excuse; you could just not respond.

You are saying that as a woman you experienced difficulty in the 1970s (and possibly beyond). I accept that.

I don't accept the idea that you are taking a large group of people with greatly different opinions and saying they all have "the same clothing". There are a wide range of opinions... some of which I agree with, some of which I disagree with but respect, and some of which I think are offensive. I would never say that everyone who questions my ideology wears "the same clothing".

An open mind means that you listen to people's points without prejudice. It means that you accept where they are right, and respect differences of opinion without name calling or personal attacks. Your last paragraph which appears to tell me that I am an idiot who should go **** myself (correct me if I am wrong) isn't helpful. (If I interpreted that wrong... I would like to know what you mean by "clusterfreep"?)

So, I guess when women say stop they really mean keep it up. I can't keep correcting your mis-interpretations. Im sure there are people out there who would actually enjoy what you think is discourse. Gotta go, Ive lost track of the grass and it will be dark in 4 hours.

Ive been on this forum quite some time now, Setanta doesn't need my help, he's more than capable of handling you when you get a little vulgar. The things people allow themselves to express is very illuminating. See ya!

You responded again Glitterbag (and with an inappropriate joke no less). I will be here waiting if you want to discuss more, if not than thank you. You have been much more reasonable than Setanta.

Good luck with the grass.

"No. You see children know such a lot now, they soon don't believe in men's rights, and every time a child says, `I believe in equal pay for women,' there is a testicle somewhere that falls down dead."



There's more than one running on dust as it is.

Izzy, you made me laugh. I don't think Im going to be able to watch the grass grow any longer tonight.

It's not that funny. I believe in equal pay for women.