What Would Jesus Do?

I think Jesus would pick up a gun and blow the bastards brains out. Or he would first attempt to arrange a diplomatic solution before starting a war. One or the other.

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Are we talking the human Jesus, or the all-powerful "I can smite thee if I want because god's my dad" Jesus?

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You are asking the wrong question. The question is not "What would Jesus do?". The question is "What did Jesus do?"

The Bible does answer this one.

Jesus lived in the time of a brutal dictator as part of an oppressed people. You think the Roman dictators were any less brutal then Saddam. Jesus' brutal execution was only one of thousands. Josephus and other historians tell of the Romans lining roads with grisly bodies hanging from poles.

There were terrorists at the time. Jesus neither supported them nor fought them. One of Jesus' followers was called Simon the Zealot in the gospels. A Zealot at the time referred to a someone who used violent acts against Roman targets often targeting civilians (i.e. in today parlance they were "terrorists"). Like everyone else this man was simply asked to drop everything and follow.

What would Jesus do?

Read the gospels. Jesus continually spoke against violence, even though his people were brutallly oppressed.

He was arrested on trumped up charges, Tortured and brutally executed. As he was dying he prayed for his killers forgiveness.

Jesus continually said, "My Kingdom is not of this world". Thinking that Jesus would fit in to modern America is foolish. He did not come to the rich or powerful nations. Jesus was born into Palestine, a backwater poor opporessed people. If he were born today, he would be born in the West Bank or some such place.

What did Jesus do when he faced Brutal dictators violence and terrorism?

Quote:

"He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth. When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

1 Peter 2

American Christianity is very far from the true words or Example of Christ.

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ebrown_p wrote:

You are asking the wrong question. The question is not "What would Jesus do?". The question is "What did Jesus do?"

The Bible does answer this one.

Jesus lived in the time of a brutal dictator as part of an oppressed people. You think the Roman dictators were any less brutal then Saddam. Jesus' brutal execution was only one of thousands. Josephus and other historians tell of the Romans lining roads with grisly bodies hanging from poles.

There were terrorists at the time. Jesus neither supported them nor fought them. One of Jesus' followers was called Simon the Zealot in the gospels. A Zealot at the time referred to a someone who used violent acts against Roman targets often targeting civilians (i.e. in today parlance they were "terrorists"). Like everyone else this man was simply asked to drop everything and follow.

What would Jesus do?

American Christianity is very far from the true words or Example of Christ.

Good points. I guess what I was trying to get at is: If Jesus had a chance to physically protect victims of violence by using violence himself, would he (ie, going to war against terrorists).

From your post, it appears you believe that he probably wouldn't use physical force to try to stop terrorists?

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Jesus had the chance to physically protect victims of violence. He did not use violence. See John 8:1-11 for example where he defends a woman about to be killed.

Faith comes into play here. The message is to trust God. The apostle Paul writes that God will not put Christians in a situation where they must sin.

The message of Christ against violence is clear. "Love your enemies", "Do not resist the evil man", "Do go to those who harm you." The example of Christ is equally clear.

The idea of "going to war against" terrorists is very strange when you consider who Jesus was.

At the time of Christ, Rome was the world power. We now hold the position that Rome held. Roman citizens were wealthy, protected and felt justified using force to protect themselves.

If Christ were alive today, he would not be American (any more than he was Roman). He would born into an occupied country among people that Americans look down on as barbarians. The gospel story could easily happen in Afganistan today. It could not happen in Minneapolis.

There were terrorists in Christ's day that were fighting against the Roman empire. These terrorists were Christ's compatriots, in fact in the gospel of John, many people expect him to join the insurgency against the Roman occupation.

It is very strange that you are trying to force Jesus into an American point of view. Read the gospels and then ask what Jesus would do if a robber entered his 2-story ranch through his 2 car garage to steal his Rolex. These questions just doesn't make any sense.

Jesus never used violence (except in the temple where he overturned tables) and certainly never killed. Jesus' message of non-violence was very clear.

Jesus also never entered politics, even though he was in a very political time. He never advocated war (although many around him were). He never tried resisted the political acts of violence that were inflicted on him.

A Jesus who used physical force to try to stop terrorists would go completely against the life and teachings of the Jesus in the Bible.

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ebrown_p wrote:

J

It is very strange that you are trying to force Jesus into an American point of view. Read the gospels and then ask what Jesus would do if a robber entered his 2-story ranch through his 2 car garage to steal his Rolex. These questions just doesn't make any sense.

Jesus never used violence (except in the temple where he overturned tables) and certainly never killed. Jesus' message of non-violence was very clear.

I am sorry I came off like I am trying to force Jesus to have an American point of view. That is furthest from my intentions!

I honestly just wondered everyone's opinion on this.

Well, how about a Hitler? Do you think Jesus would say just let him go, let it run its course, and everyone will be taken care of in the end?

Or a mass murderer...say we know who it is, should we not use force to stop them? (I'm not talking about terrorists here, just crimminals...to stay away from the politics.

Again, I just trying to gain some understanding here...not looking to force anything...

Thank you for your great posts.

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On hitler ?
hmm.. he DID let it run its course if I remember correctly. We as humans had to step in and stop that one. I dont remember there being a 'god' that killed hitler. BUT...im not christian so i may not be a good one to answer that question. My view points are a little tainted and selfish. hehehe :-)

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ebrown,

To get more specific:

Lets say Jesus met Hitler. He knew what Hitler had planned. Do you think he'd try to stop Hitler from carrying out the plan, even if to stop him included violence, or do you think he'd let it run its course?

Maybe a better question would be: Would Jesus advise humans to try to stop a Hitler?

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Sure.

Jesus met a Hitler named Pilate.

Philo, a Roman historian, remarks on Pilate's "habit of insulting people, and his cruelty, and his continual murders of people untried and uncondemned, and his never ending, and gratuitous, and most grievous inhumanity."

Josphus, a Jewish historian tells how Pilate was called back to Rome to answer for his cruel slaughter of unarmed Jewish pilgrims (this is mentioned briefly in Luke 13:1).

The question again is what did Jesus do?

I can only repeat the words of Peter.

Quote:

When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.

Pilate was a man who brutally murdered countless people. There is no reason to believe that Jesus would have acted any differently with any other brutal murderous dictator-- even Hitler.

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There is no reason to believe that how Jesus would advise people today would be any different than how he advised people back then.

His message was simple.

- Love your enemies and do good to those who oppress you.
- Don't resist evil.
- Seek the Kingdom of God.
- Drop everything and follow me.

There were wars back then. Jesus did not say "support the troops". There were evil murderous dictators. Jesus did not say to overthrow them. There was crime and weapons, Jesus did not defend himself, nor did Jesus involve himself in politics.

Jesus was not patriotic. He didn't worry about the government. He didn't say anything about the legal system or how high taxes were (except to pay them).

Jesus' message was clear. Love God, Love your neighbor, Love your enemy. Follow me.

The answer to your questions are very clear if you believe the Biblical account of who Jesus was, and what he said.

But this is a very radical message. Very few people in Jesus' day could accept it.

Today is no different.

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Kudos, ebrown_p, kudos.

J

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Ditto Joe Nation, ditto.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Jesus' message was clear. Love God, Love your neighbor, Love your enemy. Follow me.

Well said Ebrown.

However, given the reality of a world in which not everyone will ever follow such a lead, a more relevent question might be, are Jesus's suggested methods effective in any realistic world?

It's one thing to preach that "everyone" should do no evil, but we all know that will never happen. All it would take is one person in all the world, to take a more barbaric path, and the "utopia" could be desperately wounded. And this says nothing of the weakness of the human mind in which the masses can be so easily led by charismatic leaders, this would bring the system inexorably to its knees.

Such a system as exampled by Jesus seems no more functional today than ever, and no more substantial than a fantasy.

Was his goal merely to offer an insubstantial dream, or was it a sincere offer of a workable methodology for life?

Best Regards,

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Quote:

Was his goal merely to offer an insubstantial dream, or was it a sincere offer of a workable methodology for life?

Why would God take the time to offer an insubstantial dream? No, what Christ said was what Christ said, people just don't believe it. They say, Well sure, I'm a Christian, but I don't think Jesus really meant when he said we should give away all that we have and follow him that we should give away all that we have and follow him.

Of course, that's exactly what he meant.

Joe

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Joe Nation wrote:

Why would God take the time to offer an insubstantial dream? No, what Christ said was what Christ said, people just don't believe it. They say, Well sure, I'm a Christian, but I don't think Jesus really meant when he said we should give away all that we have and follow him that we should give away all that we have and follow him.

Of course, that's exactly what he meant.

Joe

What you say Joe is so true. As Christians, very few of us are willing to give up our jobs and our posessions to follow Him. We say we believe the teachings of Jesus, but practicing them in real life is quite another. So many of us Christians (and government leaders) wear our religion on our sleeves but aren't willing to take the words of Jesus literally and apply them to our lives.

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"so many" is unfortunately mild term. Fingers would be enough to count those that took those words literally in entire history.

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Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
Was his goal merely to offer an insubstantial dream, or was it a sincere offer of a workable methodology for life?

Why would God take the time to offer an insubstantial dream? No, what Christ said was what Christ said, people just don't believe it.

It doesn't matter if they believe it or not, the goal is impossible, it is unrealistic. The goal is only viable if every single human for all time, follows the path, and that will never happen. There is simply too much variation in the behavior and psychology of humans to sustain such a system. It is a fantasy, almost by definition.

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You only think it's impossible because you're a human. Jesus thought it was possible or he wouldn't have said it. No one really knows if Christianity could really work, it hasn't been tried yet.

Personally I think it could work. I believe in the overpowering strength of love.

Joe

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Some people do it. They aren't jobless nomads, but they take their lives to Christ in a selfless way.

My husband and I were in deep financial trouble months ago. We prayed for guidance in resolving a specific financial problem--we didn't tell anyone about it.

The local church has us on a prayerlist, because of my husband's illness.

We recieved a check in the mail from a member of that church for $1000. (Yes, the amount we needed.) I called to thank her. I'd never met her. I felt I owed it to her to let her know she had answered a specific prayer. She said God had impressed upon her that figure, and that we needed it, during the prayer meeting.

Say what you will. It happened. God doesn't answer all my prayers like this. But, this woman followed what she heard as God's instruction.

I do think in a world of people, faithful like this woman, Jesus' philosophy would work beautifully.

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