48
   

Would the World be Better off Without Religion?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 01:01 pm
@catbeasy,
Communism as an ideal will not work.
catbeasy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 02:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Communism as an ideal will not work

Yes! Agreed. Neither does capitalism as an ideal and indeed, most ideals. They are so called precisely for that reason. Only gods can make ideals work..
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 02:35 pm
@catbeasy,
Capitalism works to the extent that even the poor can become rich or middle class.
Studying the right specialty/skill, working hard, and becoming your own boss/business is the road to financial success.
catbeasy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 04:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, but it also leaves a lot of waste as well.

Also, one of the assumptions in your statement is conditional. Capitalism is one of multiple forces that serve to constrain who that success is available too. The playing ground is not and has never been equal..ask Mr. Trump!

It's hard to know exactly to what degree though as there are many factors at play. Just like its hard to know about other economic systems. The Soviet Union tried some form of socialism. It didn't work on the whole. Why? Was it the system? Was it the unique qualities of the land of the SU? Was it the fact that the SU was a dictatorship? How much did its past contribute? etc.

All this to say that economic systems have a context in which they are prosecuted and to wholesale condemn them ignores that under other circumstances, these economics might work. Same thing with capitalism. It may be a good system given the right constraints/culture..Then again, at that point you may have to give it another name!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 04:25 pm
@catbeasy,
Capitalism does have constraints. As for waste, many are working to recycle waste products. Your ideals are not reality. Economics is simple supply and demand. Get real. Cars pollute the air, but people will not give up their cars.
catbeasy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 07:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Your ideals are not reality. Economics is simple supply and demand. Get real

I think you think I'm prescribing something, I'm not. I'm just trying to offer a definition of these things so we can discuss them correctly. I do this because if we were to discuss this on the level of value or morals, we would need to agree on terms..I don't offer whether or not its realistic to get people to give up their cars, I think you are reading that into what I'm saying because I have mentioned the downsides of capitalism and that communism is not what we here in the West typically think it is.

Good? Bad? First we have to know what we have..and that's conflated by the fact that we mix socialism with capitalism to some degree in this country.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 07:25 pm
@catbeasy,
Clue; all capitalistic countries have some form of socialism. Nothing in economics is pure anything.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 07:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Clue; all capitalistic countries have some form of socialism. Nothing in economics is pure anything.


I had a thought. You know if we got rid of religion it would free up probably a thousand acres of prime land for more useful buildings in all major cities.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 07:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Your ideals are not reality.


You my friend have the right stuff. I think you are very smart but you are wrong at times just like me. Idea Just because you agree with me does not mean you do not have the right stuff.
Wink
http://www.ocdonline.com/the-right-stuff
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 08:01 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
I had a thought. You know if we got rid of religion it would free up probably a thousand acres of prime land for more useful buildings in all major cities.


You don't have crazy ideas like using them buildings to educate and shelter the homeless?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 08:15 pm
@Krumple,
That's never going to happen in our life time.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2016 08:15 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
I had a thought. You know if we got rid of religion it would free up probably a thousand acres of prime land for more useful buildings in all major cities.


You don't have crazy ideas like using them buildings to educate and shelter the homeless?


Sure but why not tear down the worthless structure first then build something the homeless could take pride in living in?
catbeasy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 09:36 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
all capitalistic countries have some form of socialism. Nothing in economics is pure anything.

Now we are getting somewhere..! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 04:57 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
Sure but why not tear down the worthless structure first then build something the homeless could take pride in living in?


This happens way to often already. I see so many good structures torn down when others dream of owning them. I personally think the buildings should be left standing and build elsewhere. Surely we could find a new use for them.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 07:25 pm
@reasoning logic,
It's all supply and demand. It's based on quality and need.

Apple bought HP property in Cupertino; tore down all the buildings, and is now constructing their Campus 2 at a cost of $5 billion dollars.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 07:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It's all supply and demand. It's based on quality and need.


Quality and need for who? To me this is a moral dilemma for us because humans have little care or no interest for consistency when it comes to understanding morality. All other concepts that we have try hard to show consistency except our concept of morality. Idea
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 07:42 pm
@reasoning logic,
If you have to ask that question, you don't understand basic rules of supply and demand.
Q. Do you understand the theory of supply and demand? You learn this in Econ 101 in college.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 07:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quality and need for who?

Quote:
If you have to ask that question, you don't understand basic rules of supply and demand.


Let me guess! The consumer?

It does not take a genius to understand what is taught by the majority that agree with you nor does it take a genius to understand what many religious people think about their God.
People who love their wealth seem to worship it. Do you?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 08:34 pm
@reasoning logic,
What about the consumer?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2016 08:39 pm
@reasoning logic,
Do you grow your own food? Do you make your own clothes? Do you own a car? TV? Home?
0 Replies
 
 

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