Whatever happened to the water-fueled engine?

The WATER FUELED ENGINE, US Patent 7,552,702, is alive and well. It has been moved to the CITY of Fresno , Ca. in 2010. It is in company with the CLOSED CYCLE POWER SYSTEM Patent 5,177,952 developed for NASA in 1993. No public showing has yet been done for strategic reasons.

ARCO offered $5 million cash to a California State Official to remove the methanol fueled engine from the public view in 1979. That offer was turned down instantly and reported in the media. Then 6 State laws were passed authorizing a ten year experimental window, allowing over 500 vehicles to be placed into over 50 million miles of successful service under that California experimental program. Once the option was legalized, this program was all done with private funding. Then the Ford Motor Company converted the plan from a 12 to 1 compression engine to a 8 to 1 compression FLEX FUEL engine, and that closed down the use of the alcohol fuels in dedicated high performance engines. The market then dried up except for use of alcohols in Gasohol. What a set back just to please "BIG OIL".

Note that methanol is one of the water based fuels available for automotive use in place of oil based fuels. Ethanol is another water based fuel. Pure water is even better.

When the time is right, (when water as a fuel has been legalized) the water fueled engine will become a product for public consumption. As offshore drilling continues to destroy the coastlines of the United States, the politician will stop favoring the oil companies and make "ENERGY FREEDOM OF CHOICE" available to the alternative fuel advocates.

As it stands today it is illegal to use water as a fuel for automobiles. It is illegal to use any alternative that has not been government approved and they will not approve any fuels that really are a challenge to "BIG OIL".

So the problem is not "can a car be fueled by water, but rather "how do we get around the obstacles of politicians selling out to "BIG OIL?"

Push the politicians to open the door so water fueled engines are legal!

flex fuel alcohol based is still not a "Water fueled " engine. Its an alcohol tech engine which has, in all concernes been a rather poor performance curve POS. Methanol is just another type of alcohol and has rather toxic effects on inhalation .

Its manufacture is either a process that uses the naptha fraction in petroleum distillation , or else its a methylation process from methane biogas. Its not real energy dense like diesel so, how its a "Water based engine "is not quite accurate in the sense that a water based engine has been described herein>

I always thought that the "water engine" was a bit of mis-direction. Like when the magician has you watching his hands, not his assistant. In this case, the mis-direction was "water". It's assumed that "somehow" the electricity generated by the alternator did extremely fast electrolysis, and burned the resulting hydrogen and oxygen. But, that just didn't make sense to me.

Electrolysis is a pretty slow process, and hydrogen and oxygen don't have a real great energy density. So where is this energy coming from? I did do some research, and found that around the time of WWII, a very prevalent technology in use in rural areas hit with gasoline rationing, was "Producer Gas". This method took wood chunks, coal, charcoal, or any hydrocarbon really, and by controlled combustion, reduced the mater to H2 + CO + H2O vapor. This could then be scrubbed of ash, and burned in a standard diesel or gasoline motor. And it was a fast process. (Very disturbing to realize that deadly CO, the main element of gasoline exhaust, is actually a very good high-temp fuel. Most engines only run about 200 degrees F, but CO is ignited at about 1000 F.)

The only thing the "Water Engine" was missing was a source of Carbon and heat. Then I learned about "arclights" that were in popular use in the theaters of the time. They used carbon rods to form an electric arc to light the stages, and the light techs had to contiously adjust the electrodes because they were consumed in operation.

Bingo! That's the secret. The water wasn't the fuel, the electrodes were! To duplicate this, you would need an cheap old electric arc welder with some carbon rods (used for welding cast iron), and an insulated cup of water. Clamp it in a chamber to funnel the gas off, and hold a really looooong match to the opening! The gas (mostly carbon monoxide and H2 and some water vapor from the flash gasification) should burst into flame.

Google shows that there are quite a few companies using this method for solid biological waste disposal. They call it "Plasma Gasification", and apparently it's not used in the US, but is quite popular in many other countries. It gets rid of a hazardous waste, and produces much energy as a side effect. NICE! Beats most other entrenched technologies (coal, NG, nuclear, solar, wind), and that's why you won't see it in the US. Competition is only good for the consumer, never for the provider.

Bob Lazar's Hydrogen-powered Corvette
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkVjONutBQ0

I think that the water-fueled car is out there and can be made with affordable efforts. The problem is, the mainstream media does not let the masses know about it and the oil and automotive industry probably would buy any competition for their benefit.

So is this the water-fueled engine of the future?

Car that runs on nothing but water unveiled in Japan. No gasoline, no battery recharging and no emissions...
http://presscore.ca/2011/?p=1910

looks to be a good thing Greenwitch an I hope it all goes well.
I do have a concern but without really understanding the technology involved.
.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Breaking the bonds of the hydrogen and oxygen must be energy intensive. Where does this energy come from.
$600 per month lease costs. Its out of my league

click here to learn more
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

Ok NOT a water powered car.

It is hydrogen powered.
The hydrogen is stored in a "propane type" tank. within the vehical.
The vehical is refueled at "designated hydrogen refueling stations".

I don't really understand the technology either, and I was always told water is not a possible fuel. However, did you look at the link on the article to the company that is producing it (GenePax)? That helped me get it better. Cost is something you have to assume will come down in time if the technology proves doable and profitable.

You were told correctly. Hydrogen is a great fuel although it takes a lot of energy to generate it from water. It's just like an electric car in that the energy is generated somewhere else and stored in a form that can be released in the car, in this case Hydrogen.

It's a fraud Green Witch.

Yes, you get energy by burning Hydrogen (which combines it with Oxygen to create water).

The problem is that it takes the exact same amount of energy to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. This means that after you separate and burn (assuming you lose no energy in the process) you end up where you started. This means there is no energy to run you car.

People who claim to get extra energy by any combination of separating and burning hydrogen are lying. I can say this with confidence because it breaks a basic principle of science.

Real hydrogen cars start with hydrogen. You get the hydrogen by using electricity from a power plant (i.e. coal, nuclear, wind or solar all which are legitimate sources of power) to separate, and then putting the hydrogen into the car to burn. There is no benefit to using the car to re-separate the hydrogen because the car wants to use the energy it has to move (that's what cars are for) rather then for doing chemistry.

There are cars that use hydrogen from fuel in fuel cells. This is cool, but it is using energy from fuel.

Hi Just came across this by accident but it rang a few bells, back in the 1950's my father was working in Canada for an Oil company when he and another co-worker drew up plans for a water powered engine for cars, they divided the plans into two pieces and I've just found his half, any idea's where to pursue this (no rude suggestions please) on the internet.
Ian

How did I miss this? Yes, an energy generator would be a good thing.

Should I mention that locomotives are powered by locomotive force?

My last opportunity to reply was in Sept. 2010. Today I return to review comments by others and to consider making an additional comment from me to all the interested folks out there,

Many people seem to make their comments based upon something they read from the past. But, since the water fueled engine is yet to come and therefore part of the future, we should be looking toward the future for new ideas, and the water fueled engine is only one idea being considered by true open minded researchers.

Let me offer these considerations: 1) If the electrical energy for electrolysis is done with the water at 70 degrees and the hydrogen fuel is burned in the same 70 degree ambient temperature, the result is different than if the electrolysis is done with 2000 degree water and burned in the 70 degrees ambient atmosphere. The first case would fail on an energy basis while the second case would succeed if the heat energy is free.

2) If the water is split into hydrogen and oxygen gases by heat and heat alone, and no electricity is use, then there is no electrical energy required (See writings by J. J .Thomson in 1903). Where do you get free heat to heat the water? Look for it and you might find it.

3) What is the case of splitting water in a vacuum and combusting the hydrogen at sea level?

4) What is the value of a catalyst in electrolysis if it does not reduce the electrical energy cost?

5) If catalysts, free heat, vacuum, vibration and other readily available techniques are used in combination, the process can provide hydrogen to fuel an engine with energy to spare.

I would urge you to do a little laboratory work before you go negative on these questions. The evidence that the water fueled engine really works is already in our laboratory. Now I must get back to work on the production concepts.

I heard that General Motors announced they are spending 116 million dollars on a new Corvette design. we do not have that kind of money, so we have to work much harder in our research and development efforts than they do. But, we are having a lot of fun!

GOD bless you one and all.

I remember one car show in the late 70's (I can't rem where as I went to MANY shows those years) but in this one I saw a prototype V8 (a bit smaller than a reg V80 made out of Aluminum. It was set on a set of brackets so as to start it. No fuel feeds that I was able to see or find for that matter. I poured a 8oz glass of water into the "Fuel tank" and watched it go to the engine and RUN.
This GENUS had developed a engine ready to go into production that ran on water. It was amazing. The next day tho some suits came in and wrapped it up and it disappeared. After a LOT of digging I found that the big 3 auto makers had a "Gag" order served on the poor guy and he was unable to even tell his own mother about it without going to jail. He took all the papers and engine and toook back to his garage where he TRIED to fight the injunction but the auto makers had more bucks than he had and he died about 1983 I believe from the stress. His widow was "Badgered" for some time before she (I laughingly say SOLD here as it was more like sell to us or we'll ruin you too) Anyway she was "Forced" to sell this marvelous inovative miracle to FORD for about $40,000. yeah I know,.....whoop dee doo. IT WAS WORTH TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS!!!!
Anyway I have run across many people across the US who seen and remember this mans creation and we have tried to tell as many people as we can over the years. I had a lot of paperwork and spec sheets but my first wife didn't think I needed them anymore when she ran out on me.
I've combed the web for years looking for a SHRED of info on this engine I would swear upon my life I saw. Nothing ANYWHERE.

One MOTOR DID exist but was taken and hidden away. Maybe one day FORD will MIRACLULOUSLY COME UP WITH A ENGINE THAT RUNS ON WATER AND THEN EVERYONE WILL KNOW HOW BADLY THEY'VE BEEN RIPPED OFF.
THEY'VE BEEN SITTING ON THIS BIT OF TECH FOR ALMOST OVER 30 YEARS.
Just how many of us have spent tens of thousands of our hard earned dollars on gas when we could'of been set free of fossil fuels decades ago if not for the greed of big corporations.
It was ready AS-IS to go into production!!!
Sorry, should have said HOW it worked,.......it used a battery to power a LASER to somehow "Split" the H2O into Hydrogen and oxygen to make the engine run then burn both gasses the result was water vapor.

Hope this gets out as I'm tired of telling it one person at a time.
To those few who seen or remember this engine please tell others so all this speculation and disinformation will not serve those who are screwing us over.
JW

Schadewald, Robert J. (2008). Worlds of Their Own - A Brief History of Misguided Ideas: Creationism, Flat-Earthism, Energy Scams, and the Velikovsky Affair. Xlibris. ISBN 978-1-4363-0435-1
A book about all sorts of loonyistic assertions. it gives a section all about the thermo impossibility of excess energy in the closed system of electrolysis followed by burning of the gases. They call it Brown's gas(I believe that the name should reflect from which orifice this "Gas" eminates.

MOST -TIMES A CIGAR IS JUST A SMOKE.

What!!! The Shmenge brothers did it.

And Russell proved it.

Rap

There is a Scottish Lord who's forefathers had the intelligence to build a hydro-electric powerplant to power the manor house and estate farms back in 1870.
The current Lord hooked-up a hydrogen gas plant to it and uses the gas to power his fleet of cars which include a Ferrari, Rolls Royce and Lotus. He was interviewed on British TV by Gryph Rhys-Jones for a BBC series entitled 'Rivers'. He said the only thing he owns that cannot be converted to hydrogen gas is his helicopter, but he was trying to convince the CAA that it was safe to do.

In the UK, we are currently undergoing a major windfarm building spree. Trouble is, the anti-windfarm brigade trot-out the same old guff about wind power being rubbish as there is no way to store the energy for future use.

By hooking-up hydrogen generators to the turbines, it would be possible to then convert the electricity into a storable product that could then be used to power a gas-powered generator.

Storage is always a quandary for intermittent energy sources (wind, solar, tidal)). Currently there are few solutions, they include pumped storage, batteries, chemical production (hydrogen storage is here), and generation balance (start up steam plants when required). All require serious research and development and capital expense.

The one constraint of all these systems is thermodynamics The water fueled engine fails. The Scottish Laird's hydro system works because he has an external energy source (falling water).

It would be interesting to see his hydrogen storage=particularly the mobile tanks.

Rap