What the Universe is Most likely for

@Poseidon384,

Poseidon384 wrote:

Chai, God knew of our existence before we existed, I already said that. When we die, it will be with the universe. God will engulf the universe in a lake of fire at the second coming of christ, punishing the unfaithful with eternal pain.

Ahhh...so this "loving" god will punish people who have offended it...by subjecting them to "eternal pain."

Wow. And we call people who chop off heads and set people on fire...savages and barbarians.

They do not hold a candle to your god.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

God does not hate us. If he hated us, he either wouldn't have made us, or he would not give us a chance to go to heaven. I knew someone would say what you have said, shame on you. If he did not love us, he would never have created us. And if you do not believe in Him, why did you not put quotation marks around "god" ?

2 Replies

@SH,

SH. Haveing a flat terrain isnt difficult to explore. Humanity ussually finds pleasure in difficult things. If you do something easy, it doesnt really matter to you that it was accomplished. If it is something difficlut, you will probably remember and take pride in its accomplishment. The universe is difficult to explore. Also, God didnt shape the church entirely. Some of it is the human interferance. The church being against advancement in technology is plain stupid. That is the human part, and I do not see how they would wish for us to not advance. I am proof that the church is not always against technology advancements. Only in fields that defy our religion, like abortion technology. Anyway. You cant find things as interesting on earth as you can in space. What about extraterrestrials? They cannot exist on earth. Finding other life would make humans different. For better or for worse. We couldnt do that on flat land. Dont say that the existence of extraterrestrials is against the church. The pope (forgot which one) said the discovery of extraterrestrials would not disprove the existence of God.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

C'mon, Frank. You know the bible teaches that when you're dead, you're dead. No baking, broiling, frying or boiling. Don't throw straw men at Posey, he's having enough trouble already.

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@chai2,

Good question, Chai. Sorry I didnt anser this sooner. Well, they do not choose to be born in a place where they would starve, but they do choose how they go about with this. They could just kill themselves, not a good option, leave and risk finding a better place, maybe good but also bad at the same time, they could mentally be one with the faith, and many other options. They do not choose it. As I already explained, free will isnt choosing your place of birth or how your physical self turns out, it is choosing what to do with the life that has been given to you. Like I chose to stay in the church and get Confirmed. I am now one with the faith.

1 Reply

@Poseidon384,

Quote:

And if you do not believe in Him, why did you not put quotation marks around "god" ?

I didn't know we were supposed to put quotation marks around everything we don't believe in. They never taught me that at school or university. It seems quite cumbersome and would significantly put up fairy tale printing costs. ...
So the 'fairy godmother' with her 'magic wand' helped 'Cinderella' into the 'pumpkin coach' and she went off to the ball and danced with 'Prince Charming'...

1 Reply

@Poseidon384,

Poseidon384 wrote:

God does not hate us. If he hated us, he either wouldn't have made us, or he would not give us a chance to go to heaven. I knew someone would say what you have said, shame on you. If he did not love us, he would never have created us. And if you do not believe in Him, why did you not put quotation marks around "god" ?

Yeah...a god who is laying in wait to condemn people to ETERNAL punishment for displeasing it.

A real beauty.

Hitler, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein all look like angels compared with that monster.

1 Reply

@Poseidon384,

Quote:

God will engulf the universe in a lake of fire at the second coming of christ, punishing the unfaithful with eternal pain.

This type of punishment seems unusually cruel, after all, I have only lived a few years, the twinkling of an eye, yet for the weakness of sin I am to pay for this for an eternity? Does your god get gratification from seeing pain inflicted for an eternity by one who possibly only lived less than 100 years on earth? What sin can be so great committed by a finite human that he/she should be punished with eternal pain?

1 Reply

@korkamann,

Somehow the thought that one who lived one lifetime should pay for an eternity for sins committed seems illogical!

0 Replies

@Poseidon384,

Poseidon384 wrote:

The children with defects are eventually (if they behave) going to heaven. They may not have had a choice, but it isn'tGods fault, usually birth defects are a result of something the parent did. Free will.

What sort of sadistic "justice" is that? Making the child suffer for the "sins" of the parents? Most birth defects have nothing to do with the allegedly free will choices made by the parents. Genetic and/or chromosomal defects, the mother's exposure to viruses or bacteria while pregnant, etc.

That's just ad hoc rationalization, a perfect example of motivated reasoning: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/absolutely-maybe/2013/10/14/motivated-reasoning-fuel-for-controversies-conspiracy-theories-and-science-denialism-alike/

Quote:

Motivated reasoning: Fuel for controversies, conspiracy theories and science denialism alike
By Hilda Bastian | October 14, 2013

“Motivated reasoning refers to the discounting of information or evidence that challenges one’s prior beliefs accompanied by uncritical acceptance of anything that is attitude-consonant.”

You start with a preferred conclusion, then work backwards to find rhetorical ways to cherry-pick and manipulate the facts so that you can preserve your god-hypothesis. But in the process, you have to ignore a lot of facts, such as the one about the majority of birth defects having nothing to do with the free will choices made by the parents.

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@Poseidon384,

So you believe finite sin can deserve infinite punishment?
How does that compute?

1 Reply

@Poseidon384,

Quote:

The children with defects are eventually (if they behave) going to heaven. They may not have had a choice, but it isn'tGods fault, usually birth defects are a result of something the parent did. Free will.

Who knows what cause birth defects in newborn babies? Research has suggested that in utero exposure to pollutants can cause DNA damage, chromosomal changes which may lead to defects. How is this the parents' fault if this occurred unknowingly? How can you so blatantly blame the parents unless you know they tried to kill the unborn child deliberately by taking something illegally? Methinks you'd better come up with another rationale to justify your reasoning. So far, it's beginning to read like you are slightly discombobulated.

1 Reply

@Poseidon384,

You're really serious about all this, aren't you, Poseidon. mean, this doesn't sound like it's a put-on. That is so sad.

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@Pearlylustre,

Quote:

It isnt that he doesnt believe in it, it is that he talks about God, as if he is real, but thinks He is not.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Poseidon384 wrote:

God does not hate us. If he hated us, he either wouldn't have made us, or he would not give us a chance to go to heaven. I knew someone would say what you have said, shame on you. If he did not love us, he would never have created us. And if you do not believe in Him, why did you not put quotation marks around "god" ?

Yeah...a god who is laying in wait to condemn people to ETERNAL punishment for displeasing it.

A real beauty.

Hitler, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein all look like angels compared with that monster.

God doesnt lay in wait. We comit mortal sin, worse than venial sin. Mortal makes you be pulled to hell by the devil, and venial sends you to pergutory until your sin is swept clean. It is the devils doing, but if you must, blame God. It is fo your own accord.

0 Replies

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

So you believe finite sin can deserve infinite punishment?
How does that compute?

It is finite, exactly. God gives us opportunity to be forgiven and wipe it off our soul with reconciliation. By confessing to a priest, not just straight to God. You are forgiven then and there. So, yes, it is finite. And if it is not forgiven in life, it is infinite.

2 Replies

@Poseidon384,

Poseidon384 wrote:

By confessing to a priest, not just straight to God. You are forgiven then and there. So, yes, it is finite. And if it is not forgiven in life, it is infinite.

Does God listen to pedophile priests? And if not could someone go to hell because they confessed to a pedophile priest and didn't even realise that he was even bigger sinner than they were and so God disregarded the confession ? Or is it ok if the priest has already confessed about their pedophilia and been forgiven? Is God more likely to hear your confession if you say it directly in your prayers or if you say it to a sinful priest?
I have a child with a disability so clearly I have something I need to confess (though I'm not quite sure which of my sins was the cause of the problem- could be the abortion, could be the adultery (no, that was later...) , could be coveting my neighbour's ass) ) but I'd like to know that any priest I choose to confess to has a nice clear, unblemished line to God, since you say thatGod isn't interested in listening to me personally. I'm not saying that all priests are pedophiles but how can I be sure that God will recognise the authority of my priest if there isn't actually a warrant out for his arrest?

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@Poseidon384,

This is where your bible ignorance leads you astray. Romans 6:7 states

Quote:

For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

Which is why Paul continues, saying in vs 23

Quote:

...the wage sin pays is death

Only fair, for if anything more than return to dust were involved, surely Adam and Eve would have been warned in advance.

0 Replies

@korkamann,

korkamann wrote:

Quote:

The children with defects are eventually (if they behave) going to heaven. They may not have had a choice, but it isn'tGods fault, usually birth defects are a result of something the parent did. Free will.

Who knows what cause birth defects in newborn babies? Research has suggested that in utero exposure to pollutants can cause DNA damage, chromosomal changes which may lead to defects. How is this the parents' fault if this occurred unknowingly? How can you so blatantly blame the parents unless you know they tried to kill the unborn child deliberately by taking something illegally? Methinks you'd better come up with another rationale to justify your reasoning. So far, it's beginning to read like you are slightly discombobulated.

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