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What the Universe is Most likely for

 
 
Kolyo
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2015 09:42 pm
@Poseidon384,
Poseidon384 wrote:

God is not limited to a single time like us, he is more fifth-dimensional if you will.


No God who's less than 5 3/4-dimensional is worth believing in. Get a real faith...
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2015 12:07 am
@Kolyo,
How about, real, logical, life?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2015 04:10 pm
@Poseidon384,
Hmm. Selective miracles.
How about the billions of miracles that should have been performed but were not?
Or, for a small sample: What of the millions of children who die each year of starvation?
How does one tapeworm miracle relate to that?
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2015 04:17 pm
@neologist,
Ayep.

0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2015 07:18 pm
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2015 09:43 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Poseidon384 wrote:

You can not prove or disprove the existence of God. That is why we have FAITH.


Please forgive me if I'm taking this more literally than you intended, but do you see the logic break there? The inability to prove or disprove cannot be the motivation to chose either belief nor non-belief. The "why" for having faith must have another source. To me, it suggests motivated reasoning.


The burden of proof lies in proofing something exists, not that it doesn't exist.

I don't have to prove that the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, or Big Foot doesn't exist, someone has to prove they do. Just because I might have faith the Easter Bunny is real, doesn't make it so.

My mind is still reeling from your belief that the universe was created for humans to figure out.

So it existed without humans around for almost 14 billion years, just waiting around, twiddling its thumbs, for humans to show up in the last 100,000 years or so?

And then, when the earth gets engulfed by the Sun in another 5 billion years (I'm sure humans will long since be gone), the universe is just gonna take it easy for awhile?

You have no concept of size, or time, do you?
Poseidon384
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 11:16 pm
@neologist,
God gave humans free will. He has no control over our actions because of his gift. It is sometimes horrible like the starvation, but he does not want that. He loves us more than we could ever know.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 11:22 pm
@Poseidon384,
Would you mind explaining all the children who are born with horrible birth defects? I don't see any way to attribute that to free will.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2015 09:15 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Would you mind explaining all the children who are born with horrible birth defects? I don't see any way to attribute that to free will.


And also why some people choose with their free will to be born into areas of the world where they starve to death.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2015 11:52 am
@Poseidon384,
You believe our creator is a God of love, do you not?
How do you reconcile that belief with 6000 +/- years of war and crime and sickness and death?

You may wish to read my profile before you answer.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2015 03:04 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

FBM wrote:

Would you mind explaining all the children who are born with horrible birth defects? I don't see any way to attribute that to free will.


And also why some people choose with their free will to be born into areas of the world where they starve to death.


And why tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, tornados and diseases don't give a damn what religion or what age or how "good" the people they kill are.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2015 04:17 pm
It's 'cause God works in mysterious ways.
0 Replies
 
Poseidon384
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2015 12:15 am
@chai2,
Chai, God knew of our existence before we existed, I already said that. When we die, it will be with the universe. God will engulf the universe in a lake of fire at the second coming of christ, punishing the unfaithful with eternal pain.
Poseidon384
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2015 12:18 am
@chai2,
The children with defects are eventually (if they behave) going to heaven. They may not have had a choice, but it isn'tGods fault, usually birth defects are a result of something the parent did. Free will.
Poseidon384
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2015 12:23 am
@chai2,
So you are saying you cannot go out and kill someone or just eat a snack. Killing may be illegal, but you can still do it. Free will isn't choosing your area of birth and how much you enjoy life. It is small decisions that eventually lead to the inevitable. Also sometimes big decisions. You blowing this out of proportion.
0 Replies
 
Poseidon384
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2015 12:26 am
@FBM,
Storms and other natural disasters hve been around since before this solar system ever existed! They exist on the gas planets and the inner planets! Why wouldnt there be storms!? God just makes things the way they should be, natural. He wants us to fix the world on our own. I know no one here who doent believe in god will change their minds, but I wont either.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2015 01:03 am
@Poseidon384,
Poseidon384 wrote:

Chai, God knew of our existence before we existed, I already said that. When we die, it will be with the universe. God will engulf the universe in a lake of fire at the second coming of christ, punishing the unfaithful with eternal pain.


You know, it would be helpful if you actually addressed what I said.

The burden of proof lies on the person who is trying to prove something exists, not disproving it.

You just sort of spouted out something that has nothing to do with my post.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  4  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2015 01:13 am
@Poseidon384,
Poseidon384 wrote:

The children with defects are eventually (if they behave) going to heaven. They may not have had a choice, but it isn'tGods fault, usually birth defects are a result of something the parent did. Free will.


Again, where does this address what I said?

So a child that happens to be born in a part of the world where they will likely die within their first year of starvation, is somehow exercising free will?

Starving to death is not a birth defect.

In addition, how dare you say birth defects "usually" occur because of something the parent "did"?

That is the most ignorant, malicious thing I have heard in a long time.

You make me sick to my stomach.

I can't even stand to look at this thread anymore.
0 Replies
 
SH
 
  2  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2015 04:15 am
@Poseidon384,
What a curious idea, I myself am not religious but I can see why this would have merit, after all if you beleive your god created an entire universe then why not suggest it was all for you but I do have a couple of questions and I'm sure you wouldn't mind elaborating as after all what is a theory if it is not challenged?

Is there not some arrogance in believing all this was made specially for humanity ?

Why would humanity need soo much when really, despite all the scientific advancement that religion has been against ( which I presume in an ideal universe we would live without?) we are quite advanced and yet the furthest out we can reach is our own moon?

Why not just create an if infinite plain like earth where we could roam free discovering new terrain. Like an infinite version of minecraft lol ?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2015 07:06 am
@Poseidon384,
If your god made the system with babies born with excruciating birth defects and other innocents being killed or crippled by natural disasters, it made the suffering. An omiscient, omnipotent being couldn't figure out how to make a universe without suffering? If not, how can it be considered to be either omniscient or omnipotent? If it created the suffering, then how benevolent? It's either not a god or not a god worth worshipping.

It's a moot point, anyway. This is just so much ungrounded metaphysical speculation like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Rolling Eyes

0 Replies
 
 

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