25
   

Islamic Terrorists Strike France

 
 
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2015 11:27 pm
Quote:


The story so far: 12 people, including two policemen, have been murdered at the offices of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo by two hooded men wielding AK47s. In 2011 the magazine was firebombed after running a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad. Charlie Hebdo’s most recent tweet, before the latest attack, was a cartoon featuring the leader of Islamic State, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
Here’s what will happen next.
1. French authorities will urge the public not to jump to any unhelpful conclusions about the identity and motivation of the killers.
2. Politicians, police chiefs and mainstream media reports will urge restraint over what is clearly an inexplicable rogue incident which may have nothing whatsoever to do with the Religion of Peace.
3. Extensive – and largely fruitless – efforts will be made to find Muslim community leaders prepared to speak out against the incident, in the unlikely event that it proves that the killers may have had Islamist sympathies.
4. Liberal commentators will take pains to draw a distinction between Islamism and Islam, noting that the former is a malign perversion of the latter which (apparently) explicitly forbids the murder of innocents.
5. Warming to this theme – and once the bodies are sufficiently cold, so as not to offend anyone’s good taste – one or two braver liberal commentators will suggest that while, of course, they wholly condemn all such acts of violence, it’s nevertheless the case that one or two of Charlie Hebdo’s editorials and cartoons could be quite needlessly provocative and that their contribution to the current climate of Islamophobia may have been responsible for heightening religious tensions in the broader culture. There have to be limits to free speech, after all. You can’t shout fire in a crowded theatre.
6. The BBC, The Guardian and their fellow travellers will despatch reporters to Bradford, Luton, Rotherham, Birmingham, Tower Hamlets etc with a view to proving that Islamophobic incidents have increased as a result of unfortunate events in Paris. Campaign organisation Tell Mama will confirm that this has been the case, citing the fact that there have been lots of angry tweets on Twitter.
7. On a BBC youth debate programme the audience will be canvassed as to their views on the cause of the increased tensions. To a man – and regardless of whether or not they are themselves Muslim – they will blame only two factors: “foreign policy” and “Islamophobia.” A young, attractive, female Muslim on the panel will win massive applause from the audience by dissociating herself and her co-religionists from the actions of the killers, explaining that though they may have thought they were acting in the name of Islam they weren’t, actually, because they just weren’t. So that’s OK then.
8. Politicians will bravely call for more money, much more money, to be spent on outreach programmes to the Muslim community in order to prevent further radicalisation. Later, it will be discovered that the Community Leaders who have been selected to participate in these programmes are not moderates who have much sympathy with the idea of cultural cohesion and who have only identified themselves as “community leaders” by dint of their vociferousness.
9. The Prime Minister will make a rousing speech declaring that “The terrorists will never be allowed to win.” To prevent future incidents, new laws will be passed forbidding newspapers and magazines from running satirical articles or cartoons which may offend religious sensibilities. These laws, however, will be entirely unnecessary: from now on, no one will dare.
10. Within a month, the incident will largely be forgotten. Just like the Mumbai and Nairobi massacres were. Sophisticated commentators will recognise that though, of course what happened was pretty frightful and all that, it’s important to appreciate that your chances of being killed in a terrorist incident are way smaller than being, say, run over by a bus and that actually all we’re doing when we overreact to such incidents is placing undue emphasis on what are, after all, just rogue criminal acts and not the end of civilisation. ~James Delingpole



http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/01/07/charlie-hebdo-massacre-how-the-west-will-respond/
NSFW (view)
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 05:31 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Painted with the same liberal fantasyland brush that the feminists used to claim that rape has nothing to do with sex.


You have that exactly wrong Hawkeye.

- The feminists paint all men as responsible for rape.
- You paint all Muslims as terrorists.

I am perfectly willing to say that Islamic terrorism has everything to do with religion (just as you are willing to say that rape is about sex). It clearly does. The terrorists are religious fanatics.

Hawkeye, you are the feminist on this issue. You are pushing this narrative that there is a "terror culture" using the exact same logic that feminists used to push the "rape culture" narrative.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 06:09 am
@hawkeye10,
i never said that military lives were less valuable, what i meant was, military folk and the security people killed in Paris, live day to day with the realization that they may face violence and possible death, granted the folks at Hebdo probably felt the same way as they had hired security to protect them, but i still find an attack on civilians more shocking than one on a military target
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 06:29 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

So according to someone trying to argue the Muslims case and support them significant numbers of Muslims dont feel compelled to publicly object to terrorism carried out by muslims both against the West and against other muslims??

This tells me everything I need to know.

When a white supremacist guns down three people at Jewish facilities I don't feel compelled to publicly object because I am white. That doesn't mean I approve of his actions, but since no rational person would assume that just because we share skin color I share his beliefs, I don't feel the need to call the newspaper and make a public statement.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 07:50 am
It sounds like they've got them surrounded in the North of France, after two guys held up a petrol station with Kalsahnikovs.

They're holed up in a house in Crépy-en-Valois, apparently.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 09:54 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
- You paint all Muslims as terrorists.

Quote:
Muslim Opinion Polls

A "Tiny Minority of Extremists"?

"Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be
unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is their destination."
Quran 9:73

Have you heard that Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence? That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone. Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.

In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number. However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this. In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined.

The following polls convey what Muslims say are their attitudes toward terrorism, al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, the 9/11 attacks, violence in defense of Islam, Sharia, honor killings, and matters concerning assimilation in Western society. The results are all the more astonishing because most of the polls were conducted by organizations with an obvious interest in "discovering" agreeable statistics that downplay any cause for concern.

(These have been compiled over the years, so not all links remain active. We will continue adding to this).


Take a look at these statistics and realize how many Muslims approve of Sharia and terror. I have posted it before and it was apparently ignored. Remember this is Islam, and in itself it is fundamentally extreme.

So before you claim that it only fanatics, ask the ones (Muslims)you are so sure that are not to stand up and stop this. Good luck with that.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Opinion-Polls.htm
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 10:10 am
Quote:
Standing in solidarity with the Charlie Hebdo victims and fighting for free speech is great, but let’s address the issue here: Islamic terror.


Quote:
Even Senate Majority Leader Senator Mitch McConnell while on Fox News, called the terror attack the result of a “perverted” version of Islam,(Bullshit) even as he said that we should not be politically correct and we need to call these types of attacks what they are.

If the radicals are “perverting” true Islam, and there are only a few of them, those few are quite effective. Since 9/11, that handful of crazies (a.k.a. “mentally ill”) has committed nearly 25,000 acts of terror in the name of their religion. Hundreds die each week, and thousands die each month as a result. Those few crazy extremists are killing a few too many people.

Of course there is no perversion of anything when Quranic verses call for the killing of the unbelievers, and the hypocrisy in these attacks and calls for blasphemy laws are astounding. Anti-Semitic cartoons are commonplace in the Muslim world, yet the Jewish response takes on the form of mere complaining, while Muslims often turn to violence and murder when their religion is in question. And what could be more hypocritical than drawing cartoons to mock a people and/or religion while not allowing others to return the favor?

This hypocrisy comes from a culture where hate and violence often prevail over the freedoms we try to enjoy in the West, freedoms gradually being taken away if they are deemed offensive to the one group of immigrants of which far too many refuse to assimilate. Instead, we are asked to assimilate to them, an expectation leading to the unfortunate consequence of a constant struggle, a clash of cultures, in certain cases, culminating in violence.



Nothing demonstrates this clash of cultures more than the yin-yang reactions of Westerners versus Muslims. Granted, there have been plenty of Muslim leaders and Muslim groups condemning the attack, as they should. However, there have been more than just a “handful” of crazies celebrating.

One example in addition to the social media toasts? Writes John-Thor Dahlburg for the Associated Press, “As news of the killings in Paris reached the Middle East, celebratory gunfire was reported in a Palestinian refugee camp in southern Lebanon.”

Is it any wonder? Palestinians, remember, were caught on camera celebrating the 9/11 attacks and celebrate every time Jews are murdered by Arabs. They take their cue from Palestinian leaders who praise the killers of Jewish babies, teenagers, Holocaust survivors, Rabbis, anyone.


http://chersonandmolschky.com/2015/01/07/je-suis-charlie/
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 11:12 am
These are open ended (eternal)commands to kill. Do not think for a moment that this is not what young Muslims are taught. The Koran is as relevant as it was in the 7th century.


Quote:
The Quran:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.



Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."



Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.



Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."



Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').



Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.



Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"



Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."



Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).



Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?



Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.



Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."



Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."



Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."



Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."



Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."



Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."



Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.



Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.



Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.



Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.



Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.



Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?



Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."



Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).



Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)



Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"



Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.



Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost." Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad. The wounded are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.



Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"



Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.



Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.



Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.



Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm


Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 11:33 am
@coldjoint,
The victimes :
- Jean Cabut, aka "Cabu", 76 years.
- Stéphane Charbonnier, aka "Charb", 47 years.
- Philippe Honoré, aka "Honoré", 73 years.
- Bernard Verlhac, dit "Tignous", 57 years.
- Georges Wolinski, aka "Wolinski", 80 years.
- Bernard Maris, "Oncle Bernard", 68 years.
- Elsa Cayat, 54 years.
- Mustapha Ourrad, Charlie Hebdo's corrector.
- Michel Renaud, 69 years.
- Frédéric Boisseau, 42 years.
- Franck Brinsolaro, 49 years.
- Ahmed Merabet, 42 years.

Quote:
http://i59.tinypic.com/xaw6t4.jpg
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 11:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The victimes :


Victims of Islam. You should clarify that. They have joined the other 270 million dead because of jihad.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 12:33 pm
At least in France the extreme right (FN) is excluded (actually, they "feel excluded") from the marche républicaine on Sunday.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 12:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
It is more than just sad that extreme right (mainly from Belgium) is posting falsified quotes and "sources" now. And since they circulate in the net, it's just a matter of time when they are posted by a certain tête de nœud here, too.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 01:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
It is more than just sad that extreme right

Just can't bring yourself to blame Islam. Blame its doctrine or blame its teachings. The anti Islam movement is not the extreme right, it is now the regular citizen. And it is growing, as it should.

0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 01:35 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
These are open ended (eternal)commands to kill.


-3 for the verses in the Koran? The Muslims are not going to like that.

http://lunaticoutpost.com/smilies/rocket.gif
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 01:37 pm
Since you certainly noticed that Muslims are among the victims, it at least a bit positive that you mention those who were killed.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 01:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Muslims are among the victims,


Never said they weren't. Their religion has fucked them over for 1400 years. Don't you think they should do something about it?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 01:59 pm
What timur already said. (More than 3.500 were killed during the Troubles ...)
NSFW (view)
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2015 02:13 pm
Quote:
Section Two
The proof of the necessity of killing anyone who
curses the Prophet or finds fault with him

Isn't that special.

Quote:
The Qur'an says that Allah curses the one who harms the Prophet in this world and He connected harm of Himself to harm of the Prophet. There is no dispute that anyone who curses Allah is killed and that his curse demands that he be categorised as an unbeliever. The judgement of the unbeliever is that he is killed.

Allah says, "Those who harm Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them in this world and in the Next, and has prepared for them a humiliating punishment." (33:57). He said something similar about those who kill the believers. Part of the curse on them in this world is that they are killed. Allah says, "Cursed they will be. Wherever they are found, they are seized and all slain." (33: 61) He mentions the punishment of those who fight, "That is humiliation in this world for them." (5:45) "Killing" (qatl) can have the meaning of "curse".[6] Allah says, "May the conjecturers be killed!" (51:11) and "May Allah fight them! How they are perverted!" (9:30) i.e. may Allah curse them.

This is because there is a difference between their harming Allah and His Messenger and harming the believers. Injuring the believers, short of murder, incurs beating and exemplary punishment. The judgement against those who harm Allah and His Prophet is more severe - the death penalty.

Allah says, "No, by your Lord, they will not believe until they have you judge between them in what they disagree about." (4:65) He removes the badge of belief from those who find an impediment in themselves against accepting the Prophet’s judgement and do not submit to him. Anyone who disparages him is opposing his judgement.

Allah says, "O you who believe, do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet and be not loud in your speech to him as you are loud to one another lest your actions fail." (49:3). Such an action only comes about through disbelief and the unbeliever is killed.

Allah says, "When they come to you, they greet you with a greeting which Allah never greeted you with." Then He says, "Jahannam is enough for them, an evil homecoming." (58:9)

Allah says, "Among them are those who harm the Prophet and say that he is all ear," (9:61) and, "Those who harm the Messenger of Allah have a painful punishment." (9:63)

Allah says, "If you ask them, they will say, 'We were only plunging and playing.' Say, 'What, were you then mocking Allah, His signs and His Messenger? Make no excuses. You have disbelieved after your belief."' (9:67-68) The commentators say, "You have disbelieved" refers to what they have said about the Messenger of Allah.

We have already mentioned the consensus. As for the traditions, al-Husayn ibn 'Ali related from his father that the Messenger of Allah said in respect of this matter, "Whoever curses a Prophet, kill him. Whoever curses my Companions, beat him."[7]

In a sound hadith the Prophet commanded that Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf be killed. He asked, "Who will deal with Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf? He has harmed Allah and His Messenger." He sent someone to assassinate him without calling him to Islam, in distinction to other idol-worshippers. The cause of that lay in his causing harm to the Prophet. That indicates that the Prophet had him killed for something other than idol-worship. It was for causing harm. Abu Rafi,' who used to harm the Messenger of Allah and work against him, was also killed.

Similarly on the Day of the Conquest, he ordered the killing of Ibn Khatal and his two slavegirls who used to sing his curses on the Prophet.

In another hadith about a man who used to curse the Prophet, the Prophet said, "Who will save me from my enemy?" Khalid said, "I will," so the Prophet sent him out and he killed him.


From the horses mouth.
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/alshifa/pt4ch1sec2.htm
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