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Relativity of morality

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2021 04:43 pm
@Jasper10,
Life is not about logic; it's about personal subjective perception and belief. It's explained by our governments, politics, culture, and religions. Morality is what society deems it to be. It was not that long ago, humans ate other humans. In earlier centuries, there were cultures that practiced cannibalism as either a religious ritual or as a means for survival. Most of these cultures were located in parts of Africa, South America and island cultures found in places like New Guinea and Fiji . Over the years, the practice of cannibalism has all but vanished.
Are There Any Cultures That Still Practice Cannibalism ...
www.access2knowledge.org/featured/are-there-any-cultures-that-still-practice-cannibalism/
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 01:32 am
@cicerone imposter,
Life is not ALL about logic I agree, it is about many more things.Logic is just one element. However,as I keep mentioning (0,1...1,0) logic is the predominant logic of the day that brings people to nihilistic principles (whether they are conscious or not conscious of this).(0,0...1,1) logic super-imposed over (0,1...1,0) logic means that nihilistic principles and personal belief systems are still maintained.There is no definitive carnal proof for either logic pair outputs. The logic/math is sound.
Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 03:06 am
@Jasper10,
Oh no not me, there is nothing Nihilistic in my personal Logic reasoning...
I do believe in Universal Reason/Ratio. I am not a Nihilist!
I do believe nothing happens without a reason or for no purpose or by pure chance.
I go as far as believing everything is perfect/necessary as it is. I have good "intuition pumps" for such beliefs...
Thus I don't posit any correction to Nature as is.
It is you that feel the need to correct Nature through supernatural means as far as I know.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 03:24 am
@Albuquerque,
This has got absolutely nothing to do with the supernatural.You have raised that,not me. It has everything to do with logic.

The logic is sound.

I would say PROVE that it isn't but then what's the point of that...we all know that provision of carnal poof one way or the other has had it's day...

Forget about probabilities of truth/lies as well …..you need an end point to be able to assess the % of probability of something being truth or not truth and as you have no idea what that end point is your % of probabilities are meaningless

You would need to input all the possible logic outputs anyway to stand any chance of a sensible output.
Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 07:05 am
@Jasper10,
We have a problem with the definition of "wrong" and "right"...
If we consider all possible domains everything is right, but that is not informative as for instance a real dream about a miracle is indeed a real dream. It just happens that the dream operates in a distinct domain on what is real.

The use of the wording "right" or "wrong" can only sensibly be applied when someone is confusing one domain of operations with another and not in absolute terms.

For instance if you came to A2K and claimed you saw a talking bush on fire and swear it was true I would probably just think you were confused on which domain your true delusion was operating and not that such delusion was on itself false.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 08:04 am
@Albuquerque,
2 off logic pairs of the 4 off logic pair outputs don't state what the difference is between right or wrong. Just because they don't state what the difference is doesn't mean that the individual can automatically assume that there is no difference.

0,0....1,1 logic pairings just state that they are DIFFERENT pairings to 0,1...1,0 logic pairings.

1.An apple is an apple...…...(0,0)
2.An apple is an orange......(0,1)
3.An orange is an apple.....(1,0)
4.An orange is an orange...(1,1)

Which of the above four of logic outputs make sense?

Why is today's philosophy only based upon (0,1...1,0) logic? when (0,0...1,1) logic carries equal credence?

Sorry I have got to pick you up on your -/+ nihilistic statement as well i.e.

....If we consider all possible domains everything is right....

What about

....If we consider all possible domains everything is wrong....?????


maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 08:12 am
@Jasper10,
Let's expand your square for apples and fruits

1. An apple is a apple - true
2. An apple is a fruit - true
3. A fruit is an apple - false
4. A fruit is a fruit - true

You could also have a square to translate English to Spanish

1. An apple is an apple - false
2. An apple is a manzana - true
3. A manzana is an apple - false
4. A manzana is a manzana - false


In actual math, we set up matrices for each of these cases. There is a whole set of mathematics that deals with manipulation of these matrices.


maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 08:18 am
@maxdancona,
As far as morality, you could conceive of a set of hundreds of things that are good and bad. Of course, whether something is good or bad depends on the culture where you live. Polygamy is good in indigenous societies in Australia and North America. Polygamy is bad in modern day US.

So we could have a matrix of hundreds of items, that would map one moral system to another.

If I were designing a video game based on moral values, I would probably have exactly such a matrix. The mathematics is well known.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 08:36 am
@maxdancona,
ok...at least we are getting into a truth and lie debate now...

Here's another one for you:

1.Self doesn't exist = Self doesn't exist
2.Self exists = Self doesn't exist
3.Self doesn't exist = Self exists
4.Self exists = Self exists

Can you deny logic output 4. and if so on what grounds would you deny it bearing in mind that there is no carnal proof one way or the other that SELF exists or not.

Are you truly only going to accept just some of the logic outputs when all four logic outputs carry equal credence?

All four off logic outputs belong to you.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 10:23 am
@Jasper10,
Sure in a mapping function between Christianity and Bhuddism.

2 would be true
4 would be false

In Christianity, the self exists.
In Bhuddism the self doesn't exist.

Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2021 11:29 am
@maxdancona,
You HOPE...
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2021 12:27 am
@Jasper10,
With Buddhism practices the SELF does exist but it is trapped within consciousness.Buddhism embraces double mindedness.The Buddha went no further than an awareness of consciousness but remained a prisoner of it.
NoName77
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2021 11:27 am
@Albuquerque,
"Death is the reset where you give back to the world what the world gave to you in the first place." -- Albuquerque

I fully disagree. If that is how you choose to believe, then so be it. But it is divided, circular, forceful, and altogether vile. Another term would simply be, hellish.

Live, die, repeat.

But nowhere in this system you adopt have you considered Life itself.

Life Grows.

Death consumes.

The very fact that the "universe" Grows, never once crosses the Mind. Not that I believe in Hollywood anyway, but for those of us who do, I bring that to point out that the only Life we see is here, on Earth, and yet this universe grows....

The only death we see, is here, because the only Life we see is here.

There is much more I could go into but until one is ready to hear it, anything further will only frustrate you more than I am quite sure I already have.

Cognitive dissonance can be on hell of a monster. Especially with generations of momentum behind lying beliefs.

Some have called it Sorcery.

Others, Iniquity.

But how you choose to hear is on you my friend. It may terrify you at first, but the freedom is astounding once believed.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2021 11:34 am
@Jasper10,
Life is not about logic or numbers. All humans perceive life from their own subjective perspective. It’s influenced by environment in which we live.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2021 11:51 am
@cicerone imposter,
The logic of 0,1...1,0 as in good is bad and bad is good...is on the whole the accepted philosophy of the day so how you can claim that logic doesn’t matter is puzzling.

The above logic as I have said is only half logic and has NO carnal definitive proof to back it up...0,0 and 1,1 logics carry equal consideration.

Logic has therefore completely undone definite carnal proof one way or the other.Definite carnal proof has had its day.

Logic supersedes it.

As there is no end point in which probabilities can be measured against.0,1...1,0 logic cannot be proved by probability.It’s a meaninglessness exercise.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2021 12:02 pm
@Jasper10,
You need to be prepared to accept all 4 off logic outputs....then as NoName77 says things open up.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2021 10:39 am
@NoName77,
NoName77 wrote:

"Death is the reset where you give back to the world what the world gave to you in the first place." -- Albuquerque

I fully disagree. If that is how you choose to believe, then so be it. But it is divided, circular, forceful, and altogether vile. Another term would simply be, hellish.

Live, die, repeat.

But nowhere in this system you adopt have you considered Life itself.

Life Grows.

Death consumes.

The very fact that the "universe" Grows, never once crosses the Mind. Not that I believe in Hollywood anyway, but for those of us who do, I bring that to point out that the only Life we see is here, on Earth, and yet this universe grows....

The only death we see, is here, because the only Life we see is here.

There is much more I could go into but until one is ready to hear it, anything further will only frustrate you more than I am quite sure I already have.

Cognitive dissonance can be on hell of a monster. Especially with generations of momentum behind lying beliefs.

Some have called it Sorcery.

Others, Iniquity.

But how you choose to hear is on you my friend. It may terrify you at first, but the freedom is astounding once believed.


All that "believe" and "believe in" nonsense is...well...nonsense.

"Believing" something is nothing more than accepting it without any substantive reason for doing so.

And your attempts to get people here to "accept without substantive reason for doing so" the stuff you are peddling...is trite.

Share with us your impression...your guesses, if you will...of what "life" is and what you suppose that obligate us to do.

Some of us may find it interesting.

Some may think it to be bullshit.

But to suppose you are revealing some great, perhaps hidden, truth about the REALITY...is absurd.
0 Replies
 
NoName77
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2021 11:41 am
@cicerone imposter,
"All humans perceive life from their own subjective perspective. It’s influenced by environment in which we live."

Perspective is key, yes, and indeed we are influenced by the Environment we experience.

But that Environment is in no way static, but by way of Momentum of Belief, which is why and where our Physics come from.

Belief controls our Experience. Now surely something is surely there, but the Experience of "it", occurs in each individual Mind.

Group Mind, or Hive Mind, imposes belief upon the lesser, and this is how our Chaos has functioned for centuries, generations, however you wanna put it.

But to oppose the forced image, creates a fire....

If one can hear this, it is said that we are to make fire afraid of Fire.

Some have translated this to mean that "the most potent venom", as having no anti-venom.

But this Venom is opposed.... until one understands there can be no opposition.... Truth is Truth, regardless of the lies we Believe.

Now if you have tolerated this for this long, allow me to throw a quote into the mix:

"The teachers of rhetoric thus created a kind of feedback loop whereby the more effectively they taught, the greater the need for their continued instruction".
-- Ancient Rhetoric from Aristotle to Philostratus, Penguin Classics

Consider here again the Scientific Method, maintaining the very circle that keeps the science being grown.... Seeds grow plants, which grow Seeds....

Circular.

Hmmm....

The opening pages of this book are astounding, if one has ears to hear. Just the mere introduction says enough, then reinforced by the authors of the ages.

"....the art of finding in any given context the most effective means of persuasion".

"the rhetoric of Aristotle is a three volume treatise....

"First, it introduces clear and distinct terminology for various aspects of rhetoric, such as ethos, pathos, and logos (persuasion via character, emotion and reasoning respectively)....

"Aristotle thus takes for granted the political value of free yet orderly deliberation aimed at persuading a decision-making body of the advantages of one or another course of action"
-- Ancient Rhetoric

So here we have evidence to prove that our Experience is circular, because of the system we are forced to maintain....

If I could post a picture, I would not the body of Rhetoric, being elevated above the men searching for her, and below them, the skeleton hands holding a skull....

Mind control....

Sorcery....

Spoken....

Remember God, in the book of Genesis, looking out over the Waters, He then Spoke....

Air....

Fire, spoke Air, over the Waters, and the earth came about.

Thus how the Experience came to be.

Adam, when given the same Mind, was able to Experience the awesomeness that God wanted for him (Genesis 2:19). All was "good". There was no "evil".... until.... "knowledge of evil"....

And the Sorcery, keeps us in that Experience.

Breaking the Sorcery, is a fire heated seven times hotter than normal (Daniel 3:19).

But here again, if you will notice, Daniel and his friends, when thrown into the fire, were not touched by the flames, nor even smelled of smoke....

Coincidence?

Am I just forcing things to fit into my narrative?

I truly do not think so. But I leave this to you to ponder. But for the one or few that dare to Apply the Truth, this Application is the Fire to bring the fires under subjection.

And NOT forcefully.

Jesus Christy gave us the legal Authority to break the Sorcery.

Be blessed.
Jasper10
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2021 02:13 am
@NoName77,
You are correct...it is about having the courage to jump off the hamsters wheel and experience something new/different.ESCAPE from entrenched trains of thought/reasonings one has habitually established and are a prisoner of.Why should the hamsters wheel carry all the cards without any definitive proof.Why should we believe a LIE.LOGIC teaches one this.LOGIC carries more authority than definitive proof one way or the other.
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2021 02:32 am
@Jasper10,
Hamsters wheel = 0,1...1,0 logic = Prisoner
Escape = 0,0...0,1...1,0..1,1 logic
0 Replies
 
 

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