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Are Human's ideas a program that is very complicated?

 
 
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 09:48 am
Which can be downloaded and uploaded?

Will scientists be confident to do so in the future?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 4,496 • Replies: 91
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jnhofzinser
 
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Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 06:14 am
no Very Happy
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oristarA
 
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Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 06:37 pm
How to prove your point?
I'm from Missouri, you've got to show me.
Remember, when a program is too complicated to be understood at present, it doesn't equal to "no".
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jnhofzinser
 
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Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 07:20 pm
Considering the abject failure of AI, I would think that the burden of proof now resides squarely in the camp of those who think "pro" your resolution.
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JamesMorrison
 
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Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 08:31 pm
jnhofzinser,
When was AI judged a "Failure'? The computer I am currently using, as well as others used in this discussion, all pass the Turing test for AI with flying colors.

Regarding:
Quote:
Which can be downloaded and uploaded?

Will scientists be confident to do so in the future?


What exactly are we referring to as the object of these questions?

JM
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 10:34 pm
JamesMorrison wrote:
The computer I am currently using, as well as others used in this discussion, all pass the Turing test for AI with flying colors.

I believe that the functioning of the brain is non-magical and could, in principle, be duplicated, modified, intervened with, etc., but isn't the Turing test the ability of a computer to make a human believe that he is speaking to another human?
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oristarA
 
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Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:07 am
JamesMorrison wrote:

Regarding:
Quote:
Which can be downloaded and uploaded?

Will scientists be confident to do so in the future?


What exactly are we referring to as the object of these questions?

JM


You'd associate the quote with the title of the thread, or you might have got misled.

Brandon's point is what we are referring to.

What distinguishes human beings from the lower animals is that human beings have consciousness, while the animals don't. Is the consciousness a pregram that is VERY,VERY complex? If so, can it be copied, pasted, downloaded and uploaded, etc.?
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:27 am
oristarA wrote:
JamesMorrison wrote:
What distinguishes human beings from the lower animals is that human beings have consciousness, while the animals don't.

I dispute this. To me it seems more like animals have increasing levels of consciousness as intelligence increases, but I think it's a matter of degree. One things is certain - the brain is simply a machine of some sort.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:39 am
I don't like what happened when the AI computer became self-aware, and shortly there after realized an instinct for self-preservation, in the "Terminator" series.

Seriously though. My guess is that L. Ron was on to something in that the brain is little more than an incredibly complex computer. I think it's the disinformation recorded as fact that makes us human. I fully expect computers to integrate with the human mind on some level in the not so distant future.
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oristarA
 
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Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 02:45 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
oristarA wrote:
JamesMorrison wrote:
What distinguishes human beings from the lower animals is that human beings have consciousness, while the animals don't.

I dispute this. To me it seems more like animals have increasing levels of consciousness as intelligence increases, but I think it's a matter of degree. One things is certain - the brain is simply a machine of some sort.


Hmm, do you mean degeneracy is better than evolution? Human levels of consciousness guarantee the human levels of intelligence that is beyond the grasp of any animals. For example, humans have a syntactic language that makes us capable of planning ahead, imagining scenarios for the future, and then choosing in ways that take remote contingencies into account. And the animals? They are absolutely retarded in doing so. Very Happy
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 06:03 am
oristarA wrote:
Hmm, do you mean degeneracy is better than evolution? Human levels of consciousness guarantee the human levels of intelligence that is beyond the grasp of any animals. For example, humans have a syntactic language that makes us capable of planning ahead, imagining scenarios for the future, and then choosing in ways that take remote contingencies into account. And the animals? They are absolutely retarded in doing so. Very Happy

First of all, we are animals, so it's not us vs animals, it's us vs lower animals. I am saying simply that consciousness is not something that we have and they don't, but, rather, something that comes with intelligence, so that having more intelligence, we have more consciousness.
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jnhofzinser
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 06:13 am
JamesMorrison wrote:
The computer I am currently using, as well as others used in this discussion, all pass the Turing test for AI with flying colors.


Laughing Good Joke, James! Laughing

So where can I trade in my brain-dead box of transistors for one of those Turing-test passing whiz-bangs?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 10:03 am
jnhofzinser wrote:
JamesMorrison wrote:
The computer I am currently using, as well as others used in this discussion, all pass the Turing test for AI with flying colors.


Laughing Good Joke, James! Laughing

So where can I trade in my brain-dead box of transistors for one of those Turing-test passing whiz-bangs?

You may not need to... it could be a software thing. I have a program that allows me to introduce myself and make small talk in Spanish in a party setting. It responds specifically to what I say and after a pause it will ask random "small talk" questions of it's own. I think it would pass for a couple minutes, anyway.

oristarA wrote:
For example, humans have a syntactic language that makes us capable of planning ahead, imagining scenarios for the future, and then choosing in ways that take remote contingencies into account.
Didn't I see on one of those nature programs that gorilla's will plan and execute an assassination of their leader when its time to replace him? Also, communication is a sound reproduction issue, not an intelligence issue. Click here to learn about Koko, a gorilla with a nearly word sign-language vocabulary. If you've never seen one of these creatures at the zoo, it's time you do. Their facial expressions alone convey intelligence far greater than you give them credit for.

Shocked This one says her vocabulary is now almost 2,000 words and she has an IQ of 90?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 10:10 am
Here is an even better link about Koko. :wink:
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shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 10:17 am
I think that a persons... well... let me rephrase this. I think that the brain can be duplicated in a certain sense. The brain works off of electrical impulses... like our computers do. Though brains have an infinite circular capability that we have yet to create in computers. < Shocked >( thems the biggest words I have used in a while. hehehe) Anyway.. the one thing that I question when it comes to duplication is the ability to ask WHY and contemplate the repercussions of the answers. That is the one thing that sets us above all other life forms. That ability was somewhat created in Big Blue... but only for one subject. Has it been done for multiple subjects yet ? I don't think so. But it is forever a possibility. ((( Im going to go back to chasing my tail now... that is much simpler ))) Very Happy
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 11:20 am
shewolfnm wrote:
...Though brains have an infinite circular capability that we have yet to create in computers. < Shocked >( thems the biggest words I have used in a while. hehehe) Anyway.. the one thing that I question when it comes to duplication is the ability to ask WHY and contemplate the repercussions of the answers....

It is easy to write programs that just keep processing and never terminate. In Unix, they're called daemons. Very commonplace.

I think this idea that machines will never as "why" is false. What you are seeing in this type of human quality is simply a macroscopic attribute of the processing capacity and particular construction of our brains. Since our brains contain no element of magic, then it simply must be possible, even if we can't do it now, to build a machine to duplicate any or all of their attributes.

Here's another angle on all this. I believe that when we become able to build self-aware machines, we will be embarking on a course that could ultimately destroy mankind as surely as WMD could in today's technology. If that needs any spelling out - I am saying that in some very distant future, our self-aware machines could take over.
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shewolfnm
 
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Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 11:26 am
These programs that can continue to process also retain thier information and recall at will like we can ? If that is true then AI isalready real. Right? I dont know alot about programs and PC capability but it seems to me, anything should be possible with computers right? well..... to a certain extent
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 11:45 am
shewolfnm wrote:
These programs that can continue to process also retain thier information and recall at will like we can ? If that is true then AI isalready real. Right? I dont know alot about programs and PC capability but it seems to me, anything should be possible with computers right? well..... to a certain extent

They can continue to process indefinitely, some can recall what happened to them previously, but none I have ever seen has the slightest shred of will, nor are the ones I have seen even remotely intelligent. I am just saying that to write a program that loops endlessly is extremely common. The Windows operating system is such a program.
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jnhofzinser
 
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Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 11:58 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
The Windows operating system is such a program.
And we all know just how intelligent that is Rolling Eyes
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shewolfnm
 
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Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:04 pm
Windows and intelligent............ are you sure those two words BELONG in the same sentence? hahah! Laughing
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