10
   

Over 1,400 girls raped and abused by Muslims in English town

 
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:17 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I would be interested to see if there is any real data to suggest that this is more prevalent in Muslim communities .


Where?
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:21 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

So, this was perpetrated in the name of Islam?


No...According to one report, this was done in the "name of love". First the rape, then the victim cries, and then the rapist tells the girl "I love you".

Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:35 am
@roger,
roger wrote:

Fair enough, but 1400 is a big number from just one ethnic.


This isn't sex. This is an obsession with white, young girls.

I watched one of these guys a few years ago, when he was living near me.
Each and every day/night/weekend, this 30+ year old male brought home a different young woman. Each female was young, blond, slightly over weight and slightly stupid.

Once on his way to the trash dumpster, I saw this male try to pick up a blond woman, who was at least 20 years his senior.

Another time, the male try to pick up a 30 ish blond female , who was living in our neighborhood. She walked away.

I doubt that religion has anything to do with these males latching (!) onto young, blond, American girls.

Whatever hormonal disturbance these guys have, it results in them being in a perpetual state of "heat"...comparable to a rabid dog.
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:47 am
@maxdancona,
Do you ever think non-white people can do wrong?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:55 am
@Baldimo,
I think the exact opposite Baldimo. The point is that people should be judged by what they do rather than by their ethnicity or the color of their skin.

Obviously these criminals should have be prosecuted 16 years ago.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:57 am
@Miller,
Miller wrote:
No...According to one report, this was done in the "name of love". First the rape, then the victim cries, and then the rapist tells the girl "I love you".
On which site of the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Exploitation in Rotherham is that written?

Or are you referring to one of the earlier reports? (They are not online to all what I know.)
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 10:05 am
@Miller,
Quote:
This isn't sex. This is an obsession with white, young girls.

I watched one of these guys a few years ago, when he was living near me.
Each and every day/night/weekend, this 30+ year old male brought home a different young woman. Each female was young, blond, slightly over weight and slightly stupid.


Do you have a problem with White guys who have an obsession with White, young girls? Or does it only bother you when the guys in question are not themselves White?

Most males in our society (regardless of race) have an obsession with White, young girls.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 10:10 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
Fair enough, but 1400 is a big number from just one ethnic.
The 2002 report indicated there were then more than 270 victims.

Report (1. September) by the BBC(Panorama): Rotherham abuse: Researcher 'faced council hostility'
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 12:35 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

So, this was perpetrated in the name of Islam?


No...According to one report, this was done in the "name of love". First the rape, then the victim cries, and then the rapist tells the girl "I love you".



So, if these perpetrators' religious affiliation is irrelevant why mention it?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 05:37 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordy, Consider these two statements.

1) This is clearly a heinous crime that led to lives being ruined. The fact that it wasn't taken seriously by authorities, for whatever reason, is horrible. This should be investigated and fixed. All of the criminals involved should spend the rest of their lives in jail. The government officials who overlooked this should lose their jobs, and maybe should face prosecution for child endangerment.

I think we all agree on that.

2) Modern democracies that believe in human rights, such as England and the US, need to make sure that the rights of ethnic minorities are protected and that citizens who obey the law are ensured the equal ability to live decent lives. This includes confronting racist attitudes that exist in both England and the US and making sure that law enforcement treats all ethnic groups equally.

Lordy, do you agree with both of these statements?

In you post, you seem to be suggesting that these two ideals are at odds (I may be reading too much into your points).

To me, these are two completely separate issues. We can have both a society that takes child sexual exploitation seriously and protects the rights of ethnic minorities.

There are a couple of problems that I have with the discussion in this thread.

1) English White guys (should I call them 'Christians') victimize thousands of children every year in child pornography, prostitution and sexual tourism. But, Miller didn't start a thread on this topic.

2) This is being referred to as a Muslim sex ring for the simple reason that most of the people in this criminal ring are from Pakistan and Pakistan is a Muslim country.

England, with its state Church, is unquestionably a Christian country. Why aren't child pornographers from England referred to as "Christian child pornographers"?

maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 05:40 pm
@maxdancona,
This to make my point super clear.

This Child Sexual Exploitation is a serious crime. It should be dealt with, and stopped.

Using this to justify racism doesn't help anything. It just makes two injustices instead of one. If you listen to the child protection agencies who are actually doing something to help children, they are saying the same thing.


roger
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 06:27 pm
@maxdancona,
Well, it sounds like you think prosecution is the same as racism. If fact, it very much looks like a particular group has been given a legal pass.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 07:02 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Well, it sounds like you think prosecution is the same as racism.


What exactly did I say that gave you this impression?

I thought I made it very clear that anyone who sexually abuses children should be thrown in jail for a very long time no matter what their ethnicity is.

Read my posts again and tell me how I could make this any more clear.

hawkeye10
 
  4  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 07:23 pm
@maxdancona,
I was bitterly opposed to the trials of the Pitcairn Island people under the theory that objection of the UK bosses towards island traditions are not a criminal matter. If the UK bosses dont like how these people live then they can and should stay away and mind their own business.

Practises in England are a different matter, as when one is in Rome they should do as the Romans do. The muslims of England are almost all recent arrivals, and they dont have to be there. If they did not want to follow English sex law then they should have stayed away. The fact that a lot of these muslims would have died had they not gone to England matters not at all.....accept English hospitality and you are obligated to live under English rules. If you don t like the options then find some other place to go if u can.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
The people you are referring to as "Muslims" are in fact from Pakistan. I wonder if you are smart enough to understand the irony of your post given that fact.

I love irony.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:17 pm
@maxdancona,
Just for the record, in spite of the irony, I agree with your post.

The people who committed this crime are living under English law. They should be prosecuted under English law. And, they should be jailed for a very long time (i.e. the rest of their lives), just like anyone else living in England is jailed when they sexually exploit children.

People who commit serious crimes are criminals. This has nothing to do with ethnicity.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:29 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The people you are referring to as "Muslims" are in fact from Pakistan. I wonder if you are smart enough to understand the irony of your post given that fact.I love irony.


Islam is the official religion of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. In the 1998 census, it found 96% of the total population were Muslims, and in 2007 at 96% (Sunni 76%, Shi'a 20%). The estimated population of Muslims of Pakistan in 2008 is 169,800,000[3]. Pakistan has the second largest Muslim population in the world after Indonesia. The majority of Muslims in Pakistan are Sunnis, and the Shi'a Muslim population is the second largest in the world after Iran.

Islam in Pakistani Society
The Badshahi Masjid, literally the 'Royal Mosque', was built in 1674 by Aurangzeb. It is one of Lahore's best known landmarks, and epitomizes the beauty and grandeur of the Mughal era.

Islam arrived in the area now known as Pakistan in 711 CE, when the Umayyad dynasty sent a Muslim Arab army led by Muhammad bin Qasim against the ruler of Sindh, Raja Dahir, whose pirates attacked Arab ships. The army conquered the northwestern part of Indus Valley from Kashmir to the Arabian Sea. The arrival of the Arab Muslims to the provinces of Sindh and Punjab, along with subsequent Muslim dynasties, set the stage for the religious boundaries of South Asia that would lead to the development of the modern state of Pakistan as well as forming the foundation for Islamic rule which quickly spread across much of South Asia.

Following the rule of various Islamic empires, including the Ghaznavid Empire, the Ghorid kingdom, and the Delhi Sultanate, the Mughals controlled the region from 1526 until 1739. The The Muslim technocrats, bureaucrats, soldiers, traders, scientists, architects, teachers, theologians and Sufis flocked from the rest of the Muslim world to Islamic Sultanate and Mughal Empire in South Asia and in the land that became Pakistan. The Muslim Sufi missionaries played a pivotal role in converting the millions of native people to Islam. As in other areas where Sufis introduced it, Islam to some extent syncretized with pre-Islamic influences, resulting in a religion with some traditions distinct from those of the Arab world. Two Sufis whose shrines receive much national attention are Data Ganj Baksh (Ali Hajweri) in Lahore (ca. eleventh century) and Shahbaz Qalander in Sehwan, Sindh (ca. twelfth century).

The Muslim poet-philosopher Sir Allama Muhammad Iqbal first proposed the idea of a Muslim state in northwestern South Asia in his address to the Muslim League at Allahabad in 1930. His proposal referred to the four provinces of Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, and the NorthWest Frontier--essentially what would became Pakistan. Iqbal's idea gave concrete form to two distinct nations in the South Asia based on religion (Islam and Hinduism) and with different historical backgrounds, social customs, cultures, and social mores.

Islam was thus the basis for the creation and the unification of a separate state, but it was not expected to serve as the model of government. Mohammad Ali Jinnah made his commitment to secularism in Pakistan clear in his inaugural address when he said, You will find that in the course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State. This vision of a Muslim majority state in which religious minorities would share equally in its development was questioned shortly after independence.

Politicized Islam
From the outset, politics and religion have been intertwined both conceptually and practically in Islam. Because Prophet Muhammad established a government in Madina, precedents of governance and taxation exist. Through the history of Islam, from the Ummayyad (661-750) and Abbasid empires (750-1258) to the Mughals (1526- 1858), Safavis (1501-1722) and the Ottomans (1300-1923), religion and statehood have been treated as one. Indeed, one of the beliefs of Islam is that the purpose of the state is to provide an environment where Muslims can properly practice their religion. If a leader fails in this, the people have a right to depose him.

In 1977, the government of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto outlawed alcohol and changed the weekend from Sunday to Friday, but no substantive Islamic reform program was implemented prior to General Zia-ul-Haq's Islamization program. Starting in February 1979, new penal measures based on Islamic principles of justice went into effect. These carried considerably greater implications for women than for men. A welfare and taxation system based on Zakat and a profit-and-loss banking system were also established in accordance with Islamic prohibitions against usury but were inadequate.

Muslim sects in Pakistan
Census data[4] indicates that over 96% of the population is Muslim. The Muslims belong to different schools which are called Madhahib (singular: Madhhab) i.e, schools of jurisprudence (also 'Maktab-e-Fikr' (School of Thought) in Urdu). Around 76% of Pakistani Muslims are Sunni Muslims and there is sizeable minority 20% Shi'a Muslims. Nearly all Pakistani Sunni Muslims belong to the Hanafi school with a small Hanbali school represented by Wahabis and Ahle Hadith. The Hanafi school includes the Barelvis and Deobandis schools. Although the majority of Pakistani Shia Muslims belong to Ithna 'ashariyah school, there are significant minorities: Nizari Khoja Ismailis (Aga Khanis) and the smaller Mustaali Dawoodi Bohra and Sulaimani Bohra branches.

The difference among Sunni schools (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi, and Hanbali) are small in practice, and they may pray together in any Sunni Masjid. In Pakistan, adherents of the Barelvi and Deobandi schools also pray together in same Masjids.


The Shia Ithna 'ashariyah school has its own Masjids and Hussainias. Mustaali Dawoodi Bohra and Sulaimani Bohra also have their own Masjids. While the Nizari Khoja Ismailis (Aga Khanis) pray in Jama'at Khanas.

There are small non-Muslim religious groups: Christians (1.6%), Hindus (1.85%), Ahmadis, Sikhs, Parsis, Bahá'ís, Zoroastrians (Parsis) and others making up 4% of the population.

Data Durbar in Lahore, Pakistan is the tomb of Ali Hajweri, eleventh century Sufi. People come each year to pay their respects and to say prayers. The large complex also includes Jamia Hajweri, or Hajweri Mosque.

Laws and customs
There is no law in Pakistan enforcing hijab, although there is strong social pressure for women to observe Purdah in some regions. The practice of wearing Hijab among younger women is growing due to media influence from the Middle East and travels to Persian Gulf countries.

More and more educated people have started learning about religion, as a result of which following of one school of thought is gradually replacing practices and beliefs based on alleged evidence from Quran and Sunnah. There are also incidents of violent reactions to perceived anti-Muslim events in the world.

Islamic education to the masses is propagated mainly by Islamic schools and literature. Islamic schools (or Madrasas) are for the most devoted Muslims, mostly comprising youth and those learning to be Islamic clerics. More casual and even research oriented material is available in the form of books. While the most prominent of these schools are being monitored, the latter are being 'moderated' by both the government and some of the scholars, thereby also removing in the process the various material present in it that is used by Anti-Islam/Anti-Sunni writers. Oldest and universally accepted titles such as the Sahih Bukhari have been revised into 'summarised' editions and some of the old, complete titles, translated to Urdu, the national language, are not available for purchase now. These changes are also a herald to new outbreaks of religious controversy in the region.

The episodes of sectarian violence have significantly decreased in frequency over the years due to the conflictual engagement of the Islamic militant organizations with the state's armed forces and intelligence agencies.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:32 pm
@Miller,
You totally missed the point Miller (which has nothing to do with the fact that Pakistan is a Muslim country). I am not surprised.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:34 pm
www.muslimpopulation.com
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2014 09:55 pm
@Miller,
Nice try Miller. But this thread is about racism and child exploitation, not about religion.

(Hint: the irony has nothing to do about religion, there something to do about the history of the land that is now Pakistan that makes Hawkeye's post ironically funny)
 

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