Ebola in The USA

@Frank Apisa,

1. Why do you put the phrase medical experts in quotes? These are people with the education, training, research and experience on the ground with access to the latest data.

They are medical experts, period.

2. I will give you the same challenge that I gave to Hawkeye and Finn. You claim that the medical experts are either being deceptive, or are themselves incorrect...

Give me a time, either current or any time in the past century where the establishment medical experts were wrong when they have said there was no significant chance of something bad happening.

Not only are medical experts in fact experts. They also have a very good track record.

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CNN Defends New Slogan

NEW YORK —The president of CNN Worldwide, Jeff Zucker, attempted on Wednesday to defuse the brewing controversy over his decision to change the network’s official slogan from “The Most Trusted Name in News” to “Holy Crap, We’re All Gonna Die.”

“This exciting new slogan is just one piece of our over-all rebranding strategy,” Zucker said. “Going forward, we want CNN to be synonymous with the threat of imminent death.”

He added that the network expected to see strong ratings growth as a result of having the words “Holy Crap, We’re All Gonna Die” on-screen twenty-four hours a day.

Part of Zucker’s new strategy was on display during Tuesday’s edition of the network’s signature program, “The Situation Room,” in which a visibly ill-at-ease Wolf Blitzer appeared dressed as The Grim Reaper.

“That’s a work in progress,” Zucker said about Blitzer’s makeover. “But once Wolf gets comfortable swinging that scythe, he’s going to be amazing.”

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@Finn dAbuzz,

1. It is not government officials telling you "Just trust us, we know what we are doing". It is medical experts with training and research and data. They actually do know significantly more than you do about ebola. If you want to know about ebola, you should listen to them.

2. The reason a ban on air traffic is counter-productive is that it does nothing. Primarily this is because (as I keep saying and you keep ignoring) according to medical experts There is no significant risk of an ebola epidemic in the US.. I don't know how many times I (or the medical experts) have to say this for you to get it. There is no significant risk of an ebola epidemic in the US.

3. The medical experts aren't just saying "trust us, we know what we are doing". They are presenting the reasons (which I have already elaborated and will elaborate again if I have to).

4. You are the evidence that there is panic (along with Fox news and all of the other yahoos calling for extreme measures that the medical experts keep saying aren't useful).

This is so simple. On one side you have medical experts who are trained scientists, have treated the disease, have done the scientific research, have seen the computer models... these are the people who actually know what they are talking about. They are saying there is no significant risk of an ebola epidemic.

On the other side you have a bunch of yahoos who are saying that we should fear an ebola epidemic and are even advocating extreme measure such as suspending air traffic even those these measures are not advocated by the medical experts.

You are living a fantasy land... it is a fearful fantasy land, not a happy place, but it is not based on reality.

The people who know reality (i.e. the people who are actually studying ebola and looking at data and treating the illness) are telling us that there is no significant risk of an ebola outbreak.

The fact that no matter how many times the medical experts say the same thing, you ignore this for and listen to fox news yahoos is ridiculous.

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Well maxdancona believes that the experts never lie or utter self-serving rationalizations, and that we are idiots if we think for ourselves about small probabilities of something truly horrific happening, instead of placidly keeping our mouths shut and doing what we are told by these "excperts".

Bobsal evidently believes the outbreak is a Republican conspiracy and that those infected were obviously violating well established guidelines (and presumably deserved what they got). The facts however suggest the exposures in Dallas occurred before the diagnosis of Eubola was confirmed.

I think it is fairly obvious that a good deal of the public concerns here involve the all-too-obvious facts that the assurances offered by government people ranging from the President to CDC officials that there is "little likelihood" of anything bad happening have been so frequently confounded by still unfolding facts. In addition the rather transparent rationalizations offered by these same people for avoiding travel restrictions (that other nations are putting in place) have been so vacuous - the President even explained that a travel ban would prevent needed emergency aid workers from going to affected countries or returning after they get there. This is a remarkably lame explanation from the head of a government with literally thousands of transport aircraft under his direct command.

All of this makes people wonder about the motives and/or competence of those "experts" in managing this matter - a very good way to excite panic. Catastrophic epidemics have occurred before - the 1918 worldwide flu epidemic is a vivid example - and the key to its spread was the ongoing mobility of people in the world - then in the last days of WWI. That world wide mobility has increased a hundred-fold since then, so our vulnerability should not be minimized.

A much less communicable, but then equally deadly disease, AIDS, was in its fifth or sixth year of public notice, and had spread to all continents before its communicability and mode of transmission was understood and addressed. Where were the "experts" then??

We need to weigh our estimates of the likelihood of an event with the consequences of it occurring. The "significance" of a risk is not measured by the probability of its occurrence alone. Instead it is the statistical expectation associated with the risk - i.e. the product of the probability of occurrence with consequences if it materializes. Some of the self-proclaimers "scientists" here don't appear to understand that elementary principle.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

1. Why do you put the phrase medical experts in quotes? These are people with the education, training, research and experience on the ground with access to the latest data.

They are medical experts, period.

And you are asking me to take YOUR word for that?

I respectfully decline.

Quote:

2. I will give you the same challenge that I gave to Hawkeye and Finn. You claim that the medical experts are either being deceptive, or are themselves incorrect...

I did not say there are being deceptive...or incorrect.

I said "Max, it is in the interests of the "medical experts" to be as calming as absolutely possible. They will say what they have to say in order not to create chaos.

But to suppose that what they are saying closes the book on this...is naive beyond comprehension.

Keep in mind, some of these "medical experts" were the one assuring us that the hospital and staff had been thoroughly vetted to safely handle the patient...yet two of the staff have become infected."

It is my opinion...and I stand by every word I wrote there.

Quote:

Give me a time, either current or any time in the past century where the establishment medical experts were wrong when they have said there was no significant chance of something bad happening.

Dallas...just last week.

Quote:

Not only are medical experts in fact experts. They also have a very good track record.

Good. I am hoping they are correct.

I am simply unwilling to accept it as gospel at this time.

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@georgeob1,

WHOA! Its not a Republican conspiracy. However, unintended consequences of cutting funds to the CDC and holding up a Surgeon General have resulted in the flat footed response we've made in shutting Ebola down.

I also don't believe Ebola is suited for spreading in the US. I also believe there is a learning curve and that we're probably are about there. I also think Fox and CNN have been as shrill and un-helpful as ever.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

1. Why do you put the phrase medical experts in quotes? These are people with the education, training, research and experience on the ground with access to the latest data.

Quote:

- The day before she went to the hospital with Ebola symptoms, Amber Vinson was flying across the country on a commercial jet with 132 other people.
Now the man leading the U.S. fight against the deadly virus says she never should have stepped foot on the flight.
"She should not have been on that plane," Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Tom Frieden said Wednesday after the nurse was confirmed to have Ebola.
Why not?
Because Vinson, a 29-year-old nurse at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, helped care for Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan, Frieden said. And because another health worker who cared for Duncan had already been diagnosed with the virus.
"The CDC guidance in this setting outlines the need for what is called controlled movement. That can include a charter plane, a car, but it does not include public transport," Frieden said. "We will from this moment forward ensure that no other individual who is being monitored for exposure undergoes travel in any way other than controlled movement."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html

I am shocked at how little being a medical expert mattered in the end. *sarcasm*

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

There is no significant risk of an ebola epidemic in the US.. I don't know how many times I (or the medical experts) have to say this for you to get it. There is no significant risk of an ebola epidemic in the US.

"Hundred year" storm every 10 years, or 5

government Cost projections that turn out to be 1000% wrong

"Iraq has WMD"

"one in five women get raped at university"

" Butter will kill you, eat margrine".

" If you must eat eggs limit yourself to 2 week, they are deadly".

Ground beef constantly having e coli and sprouts and greens constantly being recalled due to dangerous bacteria

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Now there is a second health worker in Dallas who has come down with the disease. Still no panic but understandably, anxiety levels are rising. If trained staff in haz-mat suits can catch it, the average person is going to start questioning explanations that it is very difficult to become infected.

The average person without a college degree might. The average self-annointed genius with a college education will continue to have blind faith what the experts tell him.

Why do you think it is that less-educated people are more concerned about ebola?

I can think of two possible reasons off-hand:

(1) Most people study epidemiology in college.
(2) People who have acquired even a small degree of academic status in their own right are more psychologically invested in trusting the "expertise" that attaches to academic status.

Which do you suppose is more likely?

I'm thinking ... (2).

College is a complete joke these days.
Critical thinking isn't taught anymore. People learn to trust the experts. That's what passes for wisdom now.

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@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

WHOA! Its not a Republican conspiracy. However, unintended consequences of cutting funds to the CDC and holding up a Surgeon General have resulted in the flat footed response we've made in shutting Ebola down.

The "flat footed response" you noted appears to have much more to do with the judgment and communication skills of the variuous government spokesmen and the basis preparedness of the CDC for any potential epidemic, than anything that was cut from their budget. You have demonstrated no causal connection with the budget at all.

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

I also don't believe Ebola is suited for spreading in the US. I also believe there is a learning curve and that we're probably are about there. I also think Fox and CNN have been as shrill and un-helpful as ever.

I would be interested to learn the basis for this interesting belief of yours. The modes of communication of viral diseases are fairly well understood, and this one appears to be durable enough to survive in an air conditioned hospital in Dallas. My strong impression is that we are not counting on any new scientific breakthrough to combat this disease, but rather standard precautions applicable to viral infections generally - in this case with the added consequence of an infection with a very high mortality rate. If that is true there is little in the way of a learning curve apart from communicating the hazards and the need for standard precautions frankly and forcefully. You should ask yourself how well the government has done that. It asppears to me it has put more energy into minimizing the risks and consequences than in forcefully addressing them.

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The evidence of the news reports which i have read and heard on the radio is that the hospital in Dallas did not effectively deal with the Ebola patient. Nurses there are saying that they didn't have adequate quarantine gear, and the quarantine protocols were lax, and poorly enforced. More than anything else, it appears that hubris was the order of the day. In fact, i would suggest that infection control protocols in Africa are currently more effective than those which were used in the Dallas hospital.

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@Kolyo,

Quote:

College is a complete joke these days.
Critical thinking isn't taught anymore. People learn to trust the experts.

The elite certainly promote american stupidity, for instance by getting Americans to believe that the indoctrination that they receive at university is education, but the bigger problem is that modern Americans are basically greedy delusional lazy people. Promise Americans wealth and safety and they will do what ever they are told, and it does not matter if wealth or safety are actually delivered, there is always next time. "Iraq has WMD" and the wallstreet crooks almost melting down the global economy is finally starting to moderate this stupidity, but we still have far to go.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

More than anything else, it appears that hubris was the order of the day.

Ebola cant make a run here because we have the greatest medical system in the world! Drunk

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Keep in mind, some of these "medical experts" were the one assuring us that the hospital and staff had been thoroughly vetted to safely handle the patient...yet two of the staff have become infected."

Could you please provide a link to this?

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@georgeob1,

Whoooooo the **** are you?

You've shown nothing that disputes my point: cutting a budget didn't help the response.

I've given any number of examples of why Ebola won't be a problem once our response to it eliminates all the mistakes. Which I think "they" have. Ive posted all sorts of articles that support my optimism. You have not responded to any of them. Not one. So you've insulted me. Don't you know that's cj's job?

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Airline stocks tumble on fresh Ebola fears
Source: AP-Excite

Airline stocks are tumbling after news that the second health worker to be diagnosed with Ebola flew on a commercial flight the night before reporting a fever.

Shares of the major U.S. airlines were down between 4 percent and 6 percent in midday trading Wednesday.

Frontier Airlines announced that public-health officials were notifying passengers on Monday night's Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas-Fort Worth. The airline's crew reports that the woman showed no symptoms during the flight.

I'd be buying airline and resort and cruise line stock.

Frontier says because of the short time between the flight and her fever, health officials were contacting all 132 passengers from the flight. Public-health professionals will interview the passengers and monitor those deemed to be at risk for contracting the virus, Frontier says.

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20141015/us--airlines-ebola-b6b10d59e8.html

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Is anyone reconsidering that cruise they were planning on taking this winter? The last place I want to be is stuck in close quarters with 4000 people for a week.

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@hawkeye10,

If you are, I will take your tickets (at a steep discount of course)! I love it when people's irrational overreaction leads to great bargains.

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@hawkeye10,

I think I'll go book a damn cruise!

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Ebola in The USA

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