Snakes

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Looking for help identifying a snake. Snake people, please give some ideas if you can.

First of all yes, this guy was seen right here in Massachusetts, and just this past Saturday.

I know all about the whole-we dont have cottonmouths/water moccasins everyone says and is really crazy about pointing out- HOWEVER can I just say that we did have them in CT and I actually found pictures of them, and YEP...this is them that I saw when I was a kid..could probably even take someone into the woods and show them the cave at the foot of the falls they liked to live in all summer and probably have offspring still there:

http://www.wf.net/~snake/moccasin.htm

Now, onto present snake problem.
Whilst fishing by a nice rural type area large body of water..along comes this snake. And Im really having a hard time identifying it. Im going with the whole..okay..its not a water mocc...so, someone tell me what it was please..I cant find another snake like it in the lists.

It was like a black racer-long lean, all black up and down (this is one reason I'm saying okay..maybe its wasnt a mocc), underlying pattern was diamond back--but, that was also black or really dark charcoal/silvery. He was smooth with small scales, head was like a racer-lean with round snout, held up as he made his way along the waters edge. About 18" long. On the waters edge but, also into the water for a while.

I can find black snakes, but, they are banded or lighter underneath, cant find diamond pattern in black, cant find anything close.

help
!
(just so I can sleep and feel good with the great knowledge I will aquire)

thanks Smile

psstt..was fishing with fishin so-he can back me up or help me out here with details, Im sure Wink

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peek.....

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I see you! Wink

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Could it have been a dark, rattleless rattlesnake?

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I thought about that but, rattlers are more upland creatures, not water.
Also thinking it may have been a brought in and abandoned snake from another area.

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Black rat snake?

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Does this look anything like the snake you saw? This is a Northern Water Snake (Nerodia s. sipedon) This are many variations in color, and the older snakes get darker to the point of obscruring the pattern.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/publications/reptiles/images/Northern-Watersnake.jpg

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nope, I looked at those thinking thats the usual route. Scales much finer, jet black with almost indistinguishable pattern, and the pattern that was there was more intricate, no lighter underside anywhere, very long and lean....so, my thought was a youngster perhaps, but it seems all the youngsters are lighter in color rather than darker, and they are larger when older and darker. Its perplexing.
Thought you might be of assistance, thanks for trying.

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You might try this rogues gallery:

http://www.enature.com/search/show_search_byShape.asp?curGroupID=7&shapeID=1060

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Thanks Noddy..lots of great pictures. Still not feeling any of them.
Ill have to look for black snakes of the world or something I guess.

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Since you mentioned that your snake looked like a black racer, maybe it was. The juveniles have a pattern that becomes obscurred as the snake gets larger. By the time the snake reaches 30 inches, it becomes solid black.

Juvenile northern black racer (Coluber constrictor constrictor)

http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/VHS/Northern%20Black%20Racer%20-%20juvenile%20(Coluber%20constrictor%20constrictor)002.JPG

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I cam across a cottonmouth on a small unnamed brook/swamp south of Rt 14 in Windham Center Windham Ct in May 1981 while doing an archaeological field reconnaissance. As described in your link it was resting on a low branch extending out over the water. I nearly stumbled into it and it scared the living daylights out of me. But no one would belive me when I said I has seen one. That is probably less then 100 miles from where you saw you snake and as it is getting warmer and the winters less harsh it would not surprise me if their range is extending north.

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Cottonmouths don't range north of Virginia. Are you positive it was a cottonmouth? However, there are copperheads up there, and they are closely related to cottonmouths. The heads are alike in shape, and the body conformations are similar.
Also the northern water snake (pictured above) look similar. A heavy-bodied older water snake has an obscurred pattern, and when they flatten their head it is triangular.

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I believe ya Aq--out in the woods of Burlington CT
I know I used to swim with them...they werent very friendly either..kinda takes all the fun out of swimming too...but kids, you know..okay..Ill jump from the falls away from the cave and swim really fast, Ill be okay. Havent seen a snake like them since...its that whole flattening thing with the end of their body that freaked me out really--its just not natural LOL And copperheads are pretty regular appearance and really, alot different up in these parts from what Ive seen so far anyway.

coluber--you knoww, if that pic of the racer was all black...Id have to go with that.

I do have to say though-fishin thinks its probably the first one-northern water snake.

Eh, next time maybe Ill have my camera with me rather than sitting in the car.

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Cottonmouth in New Jersey
I strongly disagree with the statement that cottonmouths dont range north of Virgina . My friend owns a campground and while making a wildlife movie for my bio class we came across a Cottonmouth. Thinking it was one of its closley related family of non-venomus water snakes, we tonged it and brought it back to the shop for observation, all markings proved to be that of the Cottonmouth. Not only that but we found two others around the same river, next time i reply ill post a picture and see if you can prove me otherwise.

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Did anyone mention timber rattlesnakes? Just a shot in the dark. I saw one last weekend at the museum of science that was almost all black.

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SpyderE996: I don't know where you live, but I've checked several websites and field guides, and they all limit the northern range of the cottonmouth to Virginia. Of course there's always the possibility of a small population snakes that people turned loose outside their range, but that's unlikely.

More likely is that it was a water snake or a copperhead, which is closely related to the cottonmouth—Agkistrodon. The patterns are similar, and head structures are identical. I've posted two pictures, one of a cottonmouth and one of a water snake. Notice the sharp angle between the top and side of the head of the cottonmouth and the curved head of the water snake. Also this water snake and the ones in you area have sutured mouths—lines across the mouth. Going merely by patterns can be very confusing.

Juvenile cottonmouth (Agkistrodon piscivorous)

http://www.biology.duke.edu/dnhs/pics/Watersnake.jpg

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Black Snake I.D.
Hi

I found this post while trying to ID a black snake we saw in CT. We took a picture of it. I could have sworn it was solid black, but in printing the picture, the pattern showed up. I believe what I saw was a Northern Water Snake, and that's probably what Quinn1 saw.
I could post two pictures if I knew how.

Snakes

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