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Heaven or Earth

 
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 08:37 pm
Smile
Didn't mean to beat my own drum.
I just think, if you only have one life, why not be a goody-two-shoes through most of it?
can't hurt.
(Can you sense the Catholic guilt/fear here?)!
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 09:44 pm
Be mindful of the moment.

Is your thought compassionate? If your thought was realized, would the result of it likely be suffering? How much does your thought center on your own ego, and can you set that aside?

Before you speak have you considered the effect it will have on those who listen? Are your words carelessly broadcast? What do you really mean to say, and did you choose the right way to say it? Are you responding too quickly to what is said? Are your words going to cause anyone to suffer?

Why are you going? Or staying? Should you spend your time doing whatever it is that you are doing? Is your time well spent? Sleep too much; work too much? Is the result of your activity likely to be suffering for yourself, or others?

Past and future are phantoms. We learn from the past, but must leave the past behind. Let that which has caused you suffering to fade away. From your errors, learn to be cautious. The past is only preparation for the now, this moment. What you will thnk, say and do is determined by two things: you past experiences, and how well you are able to rise above it. Continue, with little thought, the causality chain of the past and suffering will doubtless be the future. Be mindful of the moment, careful of your thoughts and words and actions, and the future will contain less suffering.
0 Replies
 
Derevon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 06:44 am
That's good advice, Ashherman. We should also bear in mind that inaction, just as well as action may result in suffering. Exaggerated caution can often turn out to increase suffering rather than decrease it.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 09:36 am
Almost inevitably whatever we do, or refrain from doing, results in suffering. The trick is to minimize suffering for all sentient beings. Sometimes that may require a great deal of localized suffering. It is a balancing act where the individual is walking a slackwire 500 feet above an slow burning fire ... blindfolded. The temptation is almost always to act. However, how arrogant for us to believe that we truly know the relative outcome of the choice to act, or not. We try to become less ignorant, more compassionate, so that our choices will be more likely to mitigate than aggravate. In the end, we practice patience along with mindfulness. In an infinite universe, there is time for all things.
0 Replies
 
CerealKiller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 02:32 pm
Asherman wrote:
Be mindful of the moment.

Is your thought compassionate? If your thought was realized, would the result of it likely be suffering? How much does your thought center on your own ego, and can you set that aside?

Before you speak have you considered the effect it will have on those who listen? Are your words carelessly broadcast? What do you really mean to say, and did you choose the right way to say it? Are you responding too quickly to what is said? Are your words going to cause anyone to suffer?

Why are you going? Or staying? Should you spend your time doing whatever it is that you are doing? Is your time well spent? Sleep too much; work too much? Is the result of your activity likely to be suffering for yourself, or others?

Past and future are phantoms. We learn from the past, but must leave the past behind. Let that which has caused you suffering to fade away. From your errors, learn to be cautious. The past is only preparation for the now, this moment. What you will thnk, say and do is determined by two things: you past experiences, and how well you are able to rise above it. Continue, with little thought, the causality chain of the past and suffering will doubtless be the future. Be mindful of the moment, careful of your thoughts and words and actions, and the future will contain less suffering.



WTF ?

If I asked you what time it was would you take the clock apart ?

I don't know where you get this stuff from the simple hypothetical that I presented.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 02:58 pm
CerealKiller, you clearly do not understand Asherman's post, nor do you see the complexities raised in your supposedly 'simple hypothetical'. Nothing regarding religion and spirituality is simple. That's the point.
0 Replies
 
CerealKiller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 03:17 pm
cavfancier wrote:
CerealKiller, you clearly do not understand Asherman's post, nor do you see the complexities raised in your supposedly 'simple hypothetical'. Nothing regarding religion and spirituality is simple. That's the point.


Since you've appointed yourself Asherman's spokesperson why didn't he just say that instead of giving us a flowery lecture ?
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 03:19 pm
different strokes for different folks Wink
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 03:24 pm
I am nobody's spokesperson, CerealKiller. I do wonder though what sort of answer you want to this question, because none of them are simple, as I stated. I just happen to know that Asherman is a Buddhist. If you want more info on that, read a book. To address your original question, it is, to me, better to act well in life than put your faith in the unknowable. You might want to start by actually trying to read and understand other people's opinions, and not complaining if you don't understand them. Not trying to be harsh, just realistic.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 03:31 pm
Hmmnn ... I thought I was on point. Given one corner of the hankerchief I thought you might find the other three. Your hypothetical is not simple, and seems to be soley based on the Abrahamic model of the universe. That is certainly not a universal view. Your question doesn't make a lot of sense if the Universe is infinite and essentially dimensionless. Worrying about where the Universe "came from", or what will happen in a future that never arrives is essentially profitless, though intellectually of some interest. What is important is that we use each moment to it's fullest extent, and remain mindful of the consequences of our thought, words and actions. Live your life that way and with compassion, and both this perceptual world and whatever lies beyond will have the lowest amount of suffering within our power to control.

Cavfancier, I'm sure, knows that I'm perfectly capable of speaking for myself. In this instance, I believe, he spoke as much for himself as for me. I believe that Cavfancier, who is familiar with my style and prejudices, may have better understood my words than you have. You pose a question, and receive in return a number of posts. As discussion progresses, the thread tends to drift as one posting refers to another. If all you expected was for people to choose one or the other of two limited and undeveloped choices, then you must have been surprised to find that folks here often don't fall so easily into that straightjacket.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 08:16 pm
truth
Asherman, I too have a sense of what you are talking about. I consider it an "offering" to Cereal and anyone else who reads it. Too bad for Cereal that he is not open to it.
0 Replies
 
CerealKiller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 09:12 pm
Re: truth
JLNobody wrote:
Asherman, I too have a sense of what you are talking about. I consider it an "offering" to Cereal and anyone else who reads it. Too bad for Cereal that he is not open to it.


I'm plenty open to it. The guy is just talking way over my head.

I present a simple scenario and ask people to choose either A or B and he gives me "Be mindful of the moment, blah,blah,blah,blah".

It's a really simple question, no need for a complex answer. He's the only one who made it complex. I understood everyone else.

I don't have a clue what he's talking about and I don't understand why he responded if he wasn't going to choose A or B.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 10:25 pm
When one asks a question, I assume they truely want a considered answer. I am particularily sensitive to those who appear to be seeking some guidence in spiritual affairs. Neither a simple "A", nor "B" is an appropriate answer from my perspective, and certainly wouldn't help you or anyone else to improve their lives. I do want to help reduce, or mitigate suffering for sentient beings.

The problem, it seems from your comments above, is that you are unable to understand my feeble attempts to explain. I really don't know how I could make things more simple. Is my word choice too difficult to understand? Perhaps if you spend a bit of time analysing what I've said here it will become clear. Perhaps not. I've tried, but can not pour water into a cup with a hole in it. Sorry.
0 Replies
 
 

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