THE NATURE OF CONSCIOUSNESS

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

There's a higher concentration of crooks in certain domains. Parapsychology is one such domain. For one thing, the audience is great: throngs of gullible people wanting to believe in something, wanting to be lied to, to be reassured... Hard to resist, if you like being a guru...

I consider myself skeptical, not gullible.
I challenge a lot.

David

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Did anyone follow up with the boy to see how pwrsistent these memories
were and do they fade with time such that most memories
(except perhaps terminal ones) are forgotten.

No, not that we know of.
He knew private things of decedent 's sister's family life,
what their deceased mother had done, e.g. a family painting of hers.
He knew of other aviators, by name, in battle from that air craft carrier.
His parents successfully took him to a reunion of those veterans.

farmerman wrote:

In my own "mind flick" I was in a small boat that was being taken in very rough waters.
I almost think that my interest in small boats was initiated in this mental movie.

Some folks have sought hypnotic relief from phobias, e.g., snakes or heights
and un-expectedly found themselves in an earlier incarnate life experience.

farmerman wrote:

I know you are an NDE fan but, as I said before, , until something substantive comes up on this phenom,
our present explanations of a brain "producing a cascade of synapses" as it begins to shut down is as good as weve got.

I think that the science is better than that.
If u r interested, I suggest that u read the NDE literature.
www.IANDS.org

farmerman wrote:

This is based upon the greater number of folks who DONT have NDE's
under cardiac arrest or vegetative states that were later reversed

What someone HAS and what he REMEMBERS are not necessarily the same thing.
I was told that I died 2ice in surgery in 2005,
but I only remember awakening in an I.C.U.

Some guys have remembered NDEs from some surgeries,
but not others. Some fellows who died during surgery,
subsequently dis-inherited individual family members
who (discarnate) thay saw bad-mouthing them in
hospital waiting rooms.

In my opinion,
what it comes down to is that the Law of the Conservation of Energy
applies to conscious life. Some people have clear memories
of having died in their respective infancies (e.g., 6 months),
remember having gotten out of the dead thing,
whereupon thay RESUMED ADULTHOOD, until thay got back inside
the dead thing and brought it back to life, whereupon of course,
thay resumed babyhood again.

Some people have complained & compared it to being put back in jail
or to getting stuffed into a mayonaise jar. Thay dont like it.

To my mind, the study of NDEs has been enjoyable.
Y not give it a shot ?
Start with Life After Life by my pal, Raymond Moody, M.D.
Its a quick & ez read.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

the present research is not from some "Ghostbuster" script. Its being done by no one who has anything to do with parapsychology.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Good to know. Keep your eyes open though. Humans have a strong urge to be told reassuring tales about their mortality... scientists included.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Good to know. Keep your eyes open though. Humans have a strong urge to be told reassuring tales about their mortality... scientists included.

IMO, the first lie abput human mortality was stated in the 3rd chapter of Genesis; "you surely will not die". Then, after humans began croaking, every sort of after life lunacy has been advanced.

1 Reply

@neologist,

including "heaven"?
I always wondered how one manifested a personal gravity in a universal playground of dead people.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

what it comes down to is that the Law of the Conservation of Energy
applies to conscious life.

Conservation of M/E also states that energy changes form, so if you say consciousness is an energy it should be measurable .

Quote:

I think that the science is better than that.
If u r interested, I suggest that u read the NDE literature.

Science IS better than that. That's wgy NDE "literature" hasn't yet been vetted an reviewed in peer review. Its still considered hokum and , Although , I am open to these alterntive evidences , Im as skeptical as I am that Puma punko was built by aliens

Quote:

What someone HAS and what he REMEMBERS are not necessarily the same thing.

You need to consider what you think is real evidence. Did it happen even though it cannot be recalled? That's a stretch

While Im aware pf all sorts of literature, fringe and real, Im open but not quick to jump on board

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Humans were created to live on earth. More to say about some who are chosen for heaven; but I don't feel diminished by that.

1 Reply

@neologist,

that's a somewhat circular worldview neo. Your only ubstantiation would be, Im guessing, scripture.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Which part?
That we were created?
That we were meant to live on earth?
Or, that some humans will live in heaven?

0 Replies

@farmerman,

DAVID wrote:

what it comes down to is that the Law of the Conservation of Energy
applies to conscious life.

farmerman wrote:

Conservation of M/E also states that energy changes form,
so if you say consciousness is an energy it should be measurable.

On gross observation, consciousness IS measurable, to wit:
1. well alert n attentive
2. dozing a little, dull attention
3. drug or alcohol impairment
4. the verge of sleep
5. deep sleep
6. coma
7. dead corpse; no EEG; flat line.

DAVID wrote:

I think that the science is better than that.
If u r interested, I suggest that u read the NDE literature.

farmerman wrote:

Science IS better than that. That's wgy NDE "literature" hasn't yet been vetted an reviewed in peer review.
Its still considered hokum

U r not up to date.
Some of it has been written by RESPECTED, very senior M.D.s
from admired schools (e.g., Harvard n Yale).
Don t be prejudiced.

farmerman wrote:

and, Although, I am open to these alterntive evidences,
Im as skeptical as I am that Puma punko was built by aliens

U insist that it was built by CITIZENS???

DAVID wrote:

What someone HAS and what he REMEMBERS are not necessarily the same thing.

farmerman wrote:

You need to consider what you think is real evidence.

How about testimony based on direct observation??
Is that ever received into evidence?

farmerman wrote:

Did it happen even though it cannot be recalled? That's a stretch

No. Its not a stretch. People forget things all the time; very paradigmatic.

farmerman wrote:

While Im aware pf all sorts of literature, fringe and real,
Im open but not quick to jump on board

I SEE that u r not.

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

how do you measure such energy from state to state. Like after an organism is no more, and has slipped this mortal coil.

What units do you propose, "milicalories per Nano gauss"?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Some of it has been written by RESPECTED, very senior M.D.s from admired schools (e.g., Harvard n Yale).

Equally , there are some smart educated people who "believe" in aliens having designed the Nazca Lines and that dinosaurs still live in the deepest Congo

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

how do you measure such energy from state to state.

By gross observation, visual or aural
from what u see or hear, as he drifts off to sleep.

farmerman wrote:

Like after an organism is no more, and has slipped this mortal coil.

What units do you propose, "milicalories per Nano gauss"?

I wonder whether an EEG can distinguish between
different levels of alertness; I dunno.

There was a time when we cud not discern radio waves.
Our ignorance did not impair their existence.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

DAVID wrote:

Some of it has been written by RESPECTED, very senior M.D.s
from admired schools (e.g., Harvard n Yale).

farmerman wrote:

Equally, there are some smart educated people
who "believe" in aliens having designed the Nazca Lines and
that dinosaurs still live in the deepest Congo

YEAH??
WHO are the "smart educated people"
who "believe" that dinosaurs still live in the deepest Congo

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

WHO are the "smart educated people"
who "believe" that dinosaurs still live in the deepest Congo

See, you are doing exactly what I do. Im deciding who isn't smart by what they "BUY INTO" , rather than giving them respect because they are educated (respected scientists , physicians etc).
Lotsa people can believe in some bone headed stuff despite their training and experience.
Id rather not argue your own worldview on the subject of NDE's. I would like you to keep posting links to additional NDE resources so that we my (if anyone else is interested) review them ourselves. Are there any NDE journals that are peer reviewed by equally respected scientists or physicians?

1 Reply

@farmerman,

I 'm not sure. One of the big doorways is: www.IANDS.org

I imagine that u can probably find more links to more journals thru there.

If there were dinosaurs in Africa,
then we 'd have found them by now, the same as "Bigfoot".

We found the elephants, without much trouble.
Some of the dinosaurs were more conspicuous.

If a respected vertebrate paleontologist draws a map
to some dinosaurs, in any state of health, I will be glad to read it.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

If there were dinosaurs in Africa,
then we 'd have found them by now, the same as "Bigfoot".

I agree wholeheartedly but that doesn't stop some bigass Universities from starting "cryptozoology departments"

Wheres Dr Vinkman when we need him?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

"The child was so convincing in coming up with all the things that
there is no way on the world he could know," she said but professor
Paul Kurtz of the State University of New York at Buffalo, who heads
an organization that investigates claims of the paranormal, says he
thinks the parents are "self-deceived."

That would be CSICOP, Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal), basically a band of pseudoskeptic legends in their own minds who would claim fraud if God himself came down and made some sort of an announcement.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Do thay offer degrees in "cryptozoology" ?

Bachelor of Science ?

1 Reply

THE NATURE OF CONSCIOUSNESS

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know