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Shelter dog housebreaking issues

 
 
Sam1951
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 02:13 am
Here's the problem... Yamni is about eighteen months old. He was picked up as a stray and spent eight months in the local Humane Society shelter.
He gets along well with our other two dogs and six cats. Okay, he's low dog in the pack order, but that was established without any actual fighting.
The issue comes from his defecating not just in the house but on the couch and on our bed Confused HELP! Does anyone have any ideas on how to stop this behavior? We love him but, this has got to stop.
I know that yelling at a dog for, "bad" behavior does no good. From the way he reacts to anything that loos like a strap I would say he was beaten sometime during his life. He's just a sweet, shy dog that does one really annoying thing.

Sam
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 7,797 • Replies: 73
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 02:33 am
Is this dog paper trained?
0 Replies
 
Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 02:52 am
The shelter staff told us that he was housebroken. I have not tried using paper for training. What I am trying is to learn how he asks to go out and or teach him to ask. What really gets to me is where he leaves his messes. The floor I can understand but on my bed? I just don't get it. All of our animals sleep on the bed with us or during the day. What kind of dog shits where he sleeps? Oh yes, He sleeps on the couch and shits there too!

Sam
0 Replies
 
Turner 727
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 02:54 am
Try crate training him. hell, he might even like the crate. Our Bichon does. And crate training apparently isn't just for small dogs, given the size of crates we could have chosen from at PetsMart.

Try googling crate training dog and see what comes up.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 03:00 am
Sam1951 wrote:
The shelter staff told us that he was housebroken. I have not tried using paper for training. What I am trying is to learn how he asks to go out and or teach him to ask. What really gets to me is where he leaves his messes. The floor I can understand but on my bed? I just don't get it. All of our animals sleep on the bed with us or during the day. What kind of dog shits where he sleeps? Oh yes, He sleeps on the couch and shits there too!

Sam


Really sounds to me like the dog hasn't been properly trained. One thing to do, is to take the dog out at regular intervals. The other thing to attempt, is the paper training.

Some dogs will poop in your bed , because they're mad at you. Is your dog mad at you?
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 03:32 am
Is he mad at me? I don't think so. He comes when called, wags his tale when I talk to him and snuggles up next to me when I watch the TV. No I don't think he's mad at either me or Billie.
We had about two weeks worth of accidents with our second dog, Witko, but that was a communication problem. He did not know how to tell us he needed to go out. Once we worked that out, no problem. I've tried taking him out when ever he barks... it sort of works sometimes. I'm not thrilled with crate training but we may have no other choice.

Sam
0 Replies
 
Turner 727
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 03:37 am
Well, as far as crate training goes, you can have piss and poop all over the house, or piss and poop inside the crate. Like I said, we crate trained our Bichon, and it worked out very well.
0 Replies
 
Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 04:15 am
Well not quite all over the house... but the alternative is better. As all three of the boys will start training as soon as I can buy or make a cart we have been thinking about setting up a dog yard for them. If you don't know, sled dogs are usually kept chained separately next to individual dog houses. It would make feeding easier too. Until the dog houses are built and the yard is set up we will use the crate but keep working on the communication thing too.
Well it's just after 05:00 here in the north-woods and I should finish raking the yard today so, TTFN
0 Replies
 
Turner 727
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 04:39 am
Well, I'm sure you'll find what works best for you.

G'night.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 05:24 am
Sam, a dog that has spent 8 months at a shelter is probably not going to understand that there's anything wrong with pooping where he sleeps. He's going to need some specialized training.

I do hope that timber can drop by here. He's done a lot of pet rescue work, and probably has some good recommendations about specific training ideas.

Best of luck to both you and your pooping pet.
0 Replies
 
Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 05:25 pm
Wow, thanks everyone. Just having a chance to talk about the problem really helps.

I know that a part of the solution is getting both the dogs and us on a regular schedule. unfortunately we get phone calls from all over and at all hours. It really screws up sleep patterns and feeding times.

Then there is the play factor. We put the boys out together because of the strong pack bond. If one does not know where the others are he panics. When they are outside together they play. Yamni is still too young to take care of his business first and play later. Kids! (Sled dogs are not fully mature until they are about four years old.)

As soon as we can buy or more likely build a cart we will start training them to pull. All three have both Husky and wild canine ancestors and have the instinct to do this. Working sled dogs are usually kept chained separately with individual dog houses. The dog houses will be the next step, when we have time. This will also keep Inyan from trying to hog the canned dog food, the pudgy brat. Until then every day without a mess in the house is a good day.

LOL Sam
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 12:53 am
Wish I'd seem this thread earlier ... Sam nein' a neighbor, an' all ...


Comin' from a long stay at a shelter, the pup has some security and self esteem issues, I figure. Gettin' mad at him isn't gonna help either problem one bit. Havin' that shelter history, he's likely become somewhat accustomed to the aroma of his own waste ... its a comforting, homey sorta smell to him. If the couch and the bed are comfort spots for him, he's gonna be inclined to make 'em into his idea of "homey". Those places are redolent with your smells, and he's just trying to "move his stuff in, too", more or less ... kinda the way you hang favorite pictures on the wall in a new place.

Whatchya gotta do is be very attentive, and very consistent. There's gotta be a specific area outside for his "output". With dogs, routine is a real big thing. At frequent intervals throughout the day, sopmebody has to take him to the output spot ... at fairly close to the same times throughout each day. Intake and output are closely related with dogs, and so are output and activity. Its good to take the pup to the output place shortly after every feeding ... like within minutes, and shortly after the pup wakes up from a nap or an overnight sleep, and shortly after any vigorous play period. Do it every single time, without fail, at each instance of those events. If the pup outputs where and when desired, cool; let him know that pleases you. If nothing happens after a few minutes, cool, everybody just goes on livin'.

However, be extra attentive for signs like pacing or sniffing and pawing at the furniture, and watch the pup's rear end ... a sorta snoopin' and searchin' goes on (we call it the "Poop snoop"), then the rear end sorta hunkers down, and the tail sorta stiffens up and gets outta the way just before the deed. Simmilar behavior usually preceeds peein', too ... the pup puts some effort into pickin' just the right spot, most times. If you see any of that, get his attention and break his train of thought as quickly and gently, but firnly, as you can manage, and escort him straight to the output place. If you don't quite catch it in time, take him there anyway (even if you interupt him to get hin there) and again, if he does as you hope he will, make hin feel real good about it. If he doesn't, just get along with life, but pay close attention; your next opportunity to give it a shot won't be long in arriving. Don't make any fuss at all about accidents, just clean 'em up. Don't scold or punish him, other than a short sharp reprimand if you catch him actually in the act (in which case you immediately take him straight to the output place and follow the routine ... with no scolding or meanness on the way there). Be very pleased when he does what should be done reward him with petting or ear scritching or tummy rubbing or whatever he really likes, and lots of freindly, happy sounds.

Before too long, a few days at most, he'll get the idea. A week or ten days is more than enough to drive the message home with a mature dog, a new puppy catches on in somewhere between 2 to 4 days, mostly. There will be accidents, sure, but be patient, be absolutely consistent, and be very appreciative when he does what you want him to. When he's just not doing things he shouldn't be doing, be accommodating and generally appreciative and nice to be around. When he's actively doing things you want him to do, let him know that's very much appreciated. And when he's doing stuff you don't want him to do, don't get mad at him or scold hin, unless you actually catch him poopin' where he shouldn't be, or shredding the carpet, or something like that. But just a quick scold, as you remove him from the scene of the crime. Then sorta ignore him for a while. Pups hate bein' ignored, particularly by the alpha critters (which is you and the rest of the humans).

As long as you're consistent, and firm but fair about bad behavior while being appropriately appreciative of good behavior, the pup's inate desire to please will get you the desired results. Pay attention to the pup ... believe me, he's payin' attention to you. Give him the right signals, and both of you will be happier with life and with each other.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 01:28 am
Here's about half my pups. There's lots more, and most of 'em ... all but 2 ... are "Foster Dogs"

EDIT: Sorry - the image is gone. I may get around to puttin' it back up. May not.
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 09:36 am
You took the words...
Hi Timber,

What you advise is what I have been trying to do. The schedule thing is a bit of a problem for us. Billie and I have been operating off schedual for some time and getting back to one has been iffy but, we keep trying.

After Sunday night I'm thinking that regular exercise may be the answer.
We took the boys (Inyan, Witko and Yamni) for their bedtime potty outing. Witko's leash came unsnapped and he was off running through the woods. I followed on foot with Inyan and Billie took Yamni in the truck.

About 3/4 of a mile from the house Billie spotted Witko and took Yamni's leash off to use if she caught him. Yamni slipped out of the truck. Two loose dogs. When he wanted to play instead of coming she was so pissed that she drove back home. Yamni followed the truck home.

To cut this short, we caught both dogs. That night no messes. Idea I think we need to take the boys for a run at least once a day until I can start training. It would be good for all of us.

Thanks for the advise, it's nice to know I'm on the right track with this. You are also right on with Yamni's issues. He still lacks the confidence the other two have. They ask for what they want. Yamni will just stand there wagging gently and looking hopeful. With time and patience Yamni should develop into a really great dog.

Thanks again

Sam
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:37 am
Sam - timber is a real expert in this sort of thing. Follow his advice closely and everybody should be very happy very soon.

Consistency consistency consistency. That's what it's all about in a dog's life.
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 12:15 am
Hi All,

We ran the boys for about a mile and a quarter this evening. They are still rather frisky so I don't know how this is going to turn out. I didn't want to run them too far but I think tomorrow it will be two miles.
As far as Yamni is concerned I hope it works.

Sam
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 12:21 pm
No mess this A.M. and all around better behavior. Things are looking up.

Sam
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 12:35 pm
Sounds like you're on the right track. Keep it up, and you should be fine. Expect and prepare for accidents,of course, and handle them calmly, without stressin' the pup. Remember; Consistency. You want to build a sense of routine in the pup.

Oh, and all the excersize you can give the pup will probably still be not quite enough ... just do the best you can. On long romps away from the house, make sure you have plenty of water along, and something the pups can drink from. They'll rest whenever they feel the need, and nowhere near as often as you feel the need Mr. Green
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 01:00 pm
Hi Timber,

A question for you. Do you know where I can buy meal type dog food? One of the mushers I chat with advised to feed that instead of kibble. I'll try the feed store in Hayward but any other ideas would be helpful.

An added benefit from the run is that Yamni snuggled between Billie and me and slept there almost all night. Usually he sleeps by himself, in front of the back door. Sort of a big warm, furry draft excluder.

I'm cheating on the runs, they run I sit on the tailgate of the truck. I have tried running with them and it ain't no fun! They run faster than I do, it's more like going for a drag.

Thanks again

Sam
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 01:52 pm
Just about any feedstore should have meal. Try the local Cenex Co-Op, too. I'm pretty sure there's one in Hayward ... if not, Spooner and Shell Lake are close to you. I think there are Co-Ops in Cable, Trego and Minong, too. Personally, I'm a kibble fan, but what works for you is what works for you. When you do strike on an acceptable feed, stick with it. The pups really don't appreciate "variety" ... they prefer the stuff they're used to. A change in diet can screw up a pup's digestive tract ... and you'll find you suddenly go through lots of paper towels.
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