The Half-life of Facts.

@fresco,

Is not "languaging" a bodily function ? Where is the urge to discriminate coming from ?

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@fresco,

Quote:

You could (in philosophy), but you don't (in real life) !
That is the significant dynamic issue that "realists" fail to take into account.

Again, I call BULL ****. I do it all the time in real life.

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It's not "your" thread, Bubba. You don't own it, you don't own the site, and you are able to exercise zero control here. If you want to take your marbles and go home, help yourself, you won't be missed.

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@fresco,

Quote:

2.I am unlikely to respond further to your posts if you don't understand that perception is active not passive, and that such an active mode is informed by communal language and mutual context.

Ridiculous argument on your part.
I can actively perceive something without the use of language. Pictures do speak better than words. Visual stimulation is much more active than words are. Once I introduce language, it introduces all the other complex issues that you want to deny occur.

Please describe a chair in an active fashion. You can't without it no longer being a chair. It simply becomes a function and no longer an object.

1 Reply

@parados,

You may be misunderstanding what it means that perception is active.

Passive perception-objects present themselves as they are.
Active perception- perceptions are interpreted and divided into objects and phenomena by the perceiver.

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@Setanta,

Oh dear ! Is parados one of your students from the Discourtesy School of Pseudo-Philosophy ?

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@Setanta,

I wonder what this thread would be like if he did.
A bunch of people sitting around sneering at how ridiculous it is to challenge the established order, patting themselves on the back for having successfully quelled any incident of non-conformity.
Go back to sleep, America. Your government is in control. Drunk

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@Cyracuz,

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

The REALITY is still the REALITY...what IS...IS.

I've agreed with this all along and in other threads your response was that was a guess.

I'm not suggesting that an animals reality is different, in fact it is the same reality.

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@Cyracuz,

Quote:

A bunch of people sitting around sneering at how ridiculous it is to challenge the established order

That's pretty much how you guys look and you do sneer a lot at us and quote authority figures all the time. The established, dominant philosophical paradigm of the time is anti-realism. We are the resistance.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

You may be misunderstanding what it means that perception is active.

Passive perception-objects present themselves as they are.
Active perception- perceptions are interpreted and divided into objects and phenomena by the perceiver.

So if I look at a picture of a chair and interpret it as a chair that is made of oak and is in the Craftsman style is that active or passive?

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@parados,

It's not like that. Essentially it's two different views of how perception works:

Passive perception-objects present themselves as they are, and their meaning and value are intrinsic to the objects themselves. It is an outdated way of looking at things.

Active perception- perceptions are interpreted and divided into objects and phenomena, their meaning and value determined by the perciever.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

I wonder what this thread would be like if he did.
A bunch of people sitting around sneering at how ridiculous it is to challenge the established order, patting themselves on the back for having successfully quelled any incident of non-conformity.
Go back to sleep, America. Your government is in control.

There is a difference, Cyracuz, between "challenging the established order"...and simply asserting as truth something that is divergent from your perceptions of the "established order."

Trying to deal with you and Fresco is like trying to nail Jello to the ceiling.

Under any circumstances, it is fun watching Fresco preening and massaging his ego with posts and threads that obviously he should be making somewhere where people with his philosophical background can more deliberately confront him. But it appears that is not his bag. My guess: Many of the philosophers he regularly uses would resent what he does with their thoughts.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Many of the philosophers [Fresco] regularly uses would resent what he does with their thoughts.

No kidding. He gives the reader's digest, tutti frutti version of constructionism.

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@parados,

Active perception implies.....
What you look at in "normal life" is normally part of an action sequence .What you pick out as salient features are vocalized using a set of acquired linguistic categories and related to the subsequent "track" of an observer. In short each of us is like a board in a board game (e.g Monopoly) undergoing successive transitional states such that the states of the throw of a dice (the external world states) are interpreted differently according to the state we are in. On this account, "reality" is a function of that dynamic interaction. As we change, what we see as the world changes. The primed state of the perceptual system is termed "perceptual set". It can "blind" us to what others in their state consider to be salient features.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

As 2 schools of thought, I can agree completely with active perception. What I don't agree with is that an object is defined in value and meaning by only one intent on the part of the person perceiving it. That is far too simplistic.

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@fresco,

Quote:

In short each of us is like a board game (e.g Monopoly) undergoing successive transitional states such that the states of the throw of a dice (the external world states) are interpreted differently according to the state we are in. On this account, "reality" is a function of that dynamic interaction.

OK. but you are throwing 2 sided die in a 2 dimensional world. We actually live in a 3 dimensional world and use multi sided die that constantly change. And we still have to pass "Go" every time we go around the board. Some rules don't change.

1 Reply

@parados,

Minimally, the same species can start with the same boards. Culture/language acquisition leads to differential board development. Reality is never absolute but agreement is common.

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@parados,

Surely the extrapolation to 3 dimensions or more is obvious ! And passing "go" does not radically alter the board. (No hotels lost)

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

There is a difference, Cyracuz, between "challenging the established order"...and simply asserting as truth something that is divergent from your perceptions of the "established order."

Perhaps. But that's not what this is.
I demonstrate that there is no factual basis for claiming an "absolute reality" (challenging the established order among the half-wits who don't understand nor obey the restrictions natural science places on itself in order to be natural science), and you not only refuse to accept it, but you are also blind to the philosophical implications of it, and seem to be offended by those who are not.

1 Reply

The Half-life of Facts.

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