Anybody up for boycotting Barilla Pasta?

@hawkeye10,

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society is better off if there are places where we can speak freely. Robert has in A2K provided a very valuable service...

You can speak freely anywhere you want, that doesn't mean people won't react negatively to you or that there won't be repercussions to you as a consequence of what you say.

The only advantage of the internet, for cowards like you, is that you can spew bigotry and bullshit without personal fears of repercussions in your real life. Unfortunately, the crap you utter, and how you express yourself, can affect other people's real lives. And referring to groups in demeaning and derogatory terms is one way of doing that.

You're a spineless coward, and that's why you think Forums, like this one, do you a service. The internet is a haven for bigots.

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@Thomas,

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someone who wants it is not blackmail. Not even close.

It not that simple when an organization as an organization is extorting funds from business owners.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

jcboy wrote:
Blackmailing? Really? That’s actually a silly statement. In the United States it's their first amendment right to protest their position and spend their money elsewhere.

Although I disagree with you on Barilla, I agree with you on this point. Declining to spend your money on someone who wants it is not blackmail. Not even close.

so if americans were to decide by social media to not to employ Germans, if we said you had to be a citizen to get work, you would not have been blackmailed?

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Quote:
society is better off if there are places where we can speak freely. Robert has in A2K provided a very valuable service...

You can speak freely anywhere you want, that doesn't mean people won't react negatively to you or that there won't be repercussions to you as a consequence of what you say.

The only advantage of the internet, for cowards like you, is that you can spew bigotry and bullshit without personal fears of repercussions in your real life. Unfortunately, the crap you utter, and how you express yourself, can affect other people's real lives. And referring to groups in demeaning and derogatory terms is one way of doing that.

You're a spineless coward, and that's why you think Forums, like this one, do you a service. The internet is a haven for bigots.

if you were smarter you would know that you are better of hearing what people feel and think than you are when everyone tells you what you want to hear because they have too.

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@hawkeye10,

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if you were smarter you would know that you are better of hearing what people feel and think than you are when everyone tells you what you want to hear because they have too.

I know there are bigots. Do you think your use of slurs to refer to groups is some sort of revelation?

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so if americans were to decide by social media...

Except we don't decide by social media, we simply communicate views and express opinions that way.

And it gives cowardly bigots, like you, a chance to be offensive while protected with anonymity. There's nothing noble, let alone laudatory, about your doing that. You're like most of the crackpots who love the internet--no one would put up with your crap in life life, and you'd have to bear responsibility for your words, including the offensive terms you use. Here, you not only get to be offensive without suffering personal consequences, you foolishly get to feel smug about it.

If Barilla had said, "The fags can go buy another pasta," there really would have been a media explosion heard 'round the world, and likely a much more serious boycott he'd have to contend with.

Sorry, Hawkeye, your choice of words does reflect how you feel about gays, and it's that demeaning and derogatory attitude and language that helps to inflict real life damage on other people's lives. You're just too much of a coward to let anyone, including those who patronize your restaurant, know how you really think.

I'm not boycotting Barilla, but I'd gladly boycott your restaurant. I'd have absolutely no desire to put my money in your pocket.

1 Reply

@firefly,

if you attach meanings to words that the speaker has directly refuted as intended then you are guilty of either not listening or of demanding that the speaker conforms to your preferences. in either case I dont give a **** about your opinion. you must be a riot at comedy shows, objecting to all of the " improper " speach.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

if you attach meanings to words that the speaker has directly refuted as intended then you are guilty of either not listening or of demanding that the speaker conforms to your preferences.

I'm quite a good listener. I think I've interpreted your words exactly as you've intended them, despite your denials. Either you're kidding yourself, or you really don't realize the negative impact of your language.

And you particularly use the term "fag" in threads jcboy has started or that he contributes to. You don't like hearing him talk about his marriage, or his home and family life, or his commitment to LGBT issues, it seems to rankle you. So, what's that about, Hawkeye?

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@hawkeye10,

there is not much difference between the demand that I dont use the word fag and the demand that Barilla does present images of gays as a happy family, both are using bullying to draw the desired speech out of others with out regard to the thoughts or feelings of the speaker. how can we allow this when we claim to believe in individual freedom? How when we have fairly recent historical examples of the evils that follow the success of such speech bullying by the utopia builders (nazi's, red china, khmer rouge, CCCP)????

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@hawkeye10,

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there is not much difference between the demand that I dont use the word fag and the demand that Barilla does present images of gays as a happy family, both are using bullying to draw the desired speech out of others with out regard to the thoughts or feelings of the speaker...

Referring to groups with demeaning and derogatory slurs--and, off-hand I recall you using terms like "fags", "niggers" and "cunts"--is a form of verbal bullying, it's a method of putting others down, entire groups down, putting them "in their place", demeaning and marginalizing them as being inferior in some way, and deserving of such disrespect--it's bigotry.

No one demanded that Barilla show images of gays as happy families, and that's not what the boycott is about. It was his dismissive comment that, if gays didn't like the company's ad campaigns, they could buy another brand. The Italian gay-rights groups responded by saying they'd accept his invitation to do that, and that's how the boycott started.

Barilla, unlike you, did not refer to homosexuals in offensive terms. He was championing the "traditional" family, not putting gays down. There's a big difference between the way he expressed himself and the way you do.

And I'm not demanding you stop using the word "fag", but I think you should consider why you use it, and the societal effects such slurs have on the target groups, and whether you'd have the alleged "moral courage" to use these slurs if the name and location of your restaurant was known, or if any real life consequences to you could result.

Do you think that referring to homosexuals as "fags" is at all conducive to ending discrimination, or hostility, or legal inequalities, toward that group, or do such derogatory terms keep those things, and the negative attitudes behind them, strengthened?

You're the bully, Hawkeye. You do it with speech, with the derogatory and offensive terms you use. And, like most bullies, you're a coward.

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@firefly,

except blacks self refer as niggers, women self refer as sluts, gays self refer as fags, if they use the words then the charge that me using them is bullying goes nowhere if logic is employed.

look, if you dont want your ears to hear certain words then the solution is to remove yourself from the room where they are being used, it is not to demand that the speaker conform to your will. what we have here is one of the most destructive elements of victim culture where the most intolerant person in the room is allowed to dictate how everyone else talks, the result being lack of honesty in speach and a severe degradation of the quality of discourse....**** that, I refuse to participate in this destruction of civilization perpetuated by idiots who are allergic to truth.

edit: **** is a special case as I have never heard anyone but bdsm submissives self refer using that term. I only us that term for female promoters of evil.

edit2: if you find youself in a room where evil,/bad ideas are being voiced then the smart/correct course of action is to use words out if your mouth to beat their ideas. it is not to change the words out of their mouths by bullying.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

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except blacks self refer as niggers, women self refer as sluts, gays self refer as fags, if they use the words then the charge that me using them is bullying goes nowhere if logic is employed...

You can't possibly be dumb enough to not realize that there is a difference between how groups choose refer to themselves and how they react to these same things when expressed by outsiders, can you? Or that there are differences in motivation when the same terms are used in self-reference as opposed to when others use them?

Well, yes, I guess you probably are that dumb.

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the result being lack of honesty in speach and a severe degradation of the quality of discourse...

So now you are saying your speech is "honest"--does that mean you are admitting the anti-gay bias inherent in your use of terms like "fag"?

Do you think you are raising "the quality of discourse" by needlessly interjecting slurs? Are you joking?

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I refuse to participate in this destruction of civilization perpetuated by idiots who are allergic to truth...

If you think you are, in any way, contributing to the perpetuation of "civilization" with any of the crap you post, you are suffering from a severe case of self-deluded narcissism, one with an extremely poor prognosis.

Are you threatening to boycott A2K? Smile

That would be too good to be true. Laughing

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Are you threatening to boycott A2K? That would be too good to be true.

Good one firefly

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@firefly,

sure, lets guess at the motivation of the speaker rather than examine the ideas that the speakers words present, it is a great way to avoid the ideas we dont like and also vilify the speakers since we are free to make any guesses which suit our purposes. and with one diversion from the subject allegedly under discussion you can accomplish both at the same time. You go girl!

nope, not for me since there is no value in that. I have no interest in what the motivation of the speaker is, I only care about whether he is right. if you were a more advanced human you would join me.

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@hawkeye10,

too much indulgence goes far in explaining what ails this culture, we indulge in our current ideas and in our emotions. There is no other explaination for our hair trigger diversion into offense, where nothing ever gets done. we dont want to know the truth, we only want to be told that we are right. anyone who threatens the fulfilment of our needs for a backslap and an ego stroke gets attacked.

in another thread there is wonder that Washington is so fucked up.......Well go figure!

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@IRFRANK,

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Smile

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@hawkeye10,

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we dont want to know the truth, we only want to be told that we are right. anyone who threatens the fulfilment of our needs for a backslap and an ego stroke gets attacked.

That's yourself you're describing, Hawkeye. And, since you are rarely told by anyone at A2K that you are right, you continually proclaim yourself to be right, just so you can stroke your own ego.

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sure, lets guess at the motivation of the speaker rather than examine the ideas that the speakers words present...

So what "ideas" does your use of words like "fag" and "nigger" convey to the reader?

You choose deliberately derogatory, provocative, and demeaning terms to characterize and refer to groups. Your lack of regard for these groups is clear, your attitude is conveyed through your language use.

And that's very much connected to the topic of this thread. Homosexuals are struggling for equality and equal rights, the same rights you enjoy which are protected by laws that do not afford them the same protection or benefits. While that might not bother you, it does, and should, bother them, and everyone else who truly values the notion of equality. Both social mores and attitudes are changing as we accept and embrace diversity more fully, but lives still remain blighted by discrimination, bigotry, and hostility--the lives of very real people, who just want to live those lives without being seen, or treated, as outcasts, or inferiors, or second class citizens. People just like jcboy, who want to marry, and raise children, and live the same sort of ordinary family life as everyone else. That's what it's all about, Hawkeye.

And, when a company CEO voices attitudes that suggest indifference to this struggle, as Barilla implicitly did, or a business owner, like yourself, refers to this group in demeaning terms, as you did, there is no reason for consumers, who feel angered or tossed aside, not to react with their pocketbooks and buying power, if they feel it will help their cause or help to change minds. Offended groups do not have to tolerate such things if there is any way of changing them, or simply a way to express their displeasure. That's how you move toward equality--you really do have to exert pressure and demand it. Having lived through all the various civil rights battles in the last 60 years, I know that.

That's what this boycott is about.

So, I fail to see how your use of a slur, like "fags" contributes any "ideas" that are at all meaningful to this discussion. Words like that, and the demeaning attitude behind them, are what make this civil rights struggle even necessary because they help to keep the barriers in place.

You resent the tactics of boycotts like this because you really don't support the cause that's behind them.

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@firefly,

refusing to use pro gay imagry in their ads is not being insensitive to gays, it is saying that the interest of that political cause does not match their interests. Really, why would we want the corporations to be politically active anyways? we have politicized the supreme court, the fed, our food, must every part of our lives be a political act? I say no. Live and let live is a pretty good way to boost quality of life. why cant we let a guy stick to making and selling widgets, why must he join everyone in their struggles too?

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@hawkeye10,

What in effect the gay rights movement desire is to be able to force companies to used their shareholder money to promote the gay rights agenda, by in this case having them run adv. showing happy gay families.

No matter how you feel about the gay rights movement it is not right to force others to paid for their propaganda.

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@BillRM,

do you remember back when Jessie Jackson was going around to everyone telling them that they would never be OK with blacks unless they sent checks to the Rainbow Coalition?

we are not seeing anything new with the gay political pressure groups, but it is sad that extortion is still acceptable if it is for a proper liberal cause.

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@hawkeye10,

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but it is sad that extortion is still acceptable if it is for a proper liberal cause.

It is sad and once more even if you are in total agreement with some cause blackmailing business firms to support that cause is on it face is as morality wrong as can be.

1 Reply

Anybody up for boycotting Barilla Pasta?

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