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Religious and Atheist.

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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 11:31 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

IRFRANK wrote:

Quote:
I also found interesting the assertion that the majority of atheists are the so-called "weak" atheists--those who do not assert that there is no god, but who just don't believe it.


Would that not be an agnostic?

Atheist - Believes (asserts) there is no god or God.

Agnostic - Does not believe one way or the other.

Theist - Does believe.

Haven't we kicked this around a few times before?



You don't need the word 'agnostic' because that is just a 'weak' form of atheist - as explained in the quote. You are either a theist or you're not and if you're not you're an atheist. Simply abandoning the belief in god/s is all that is required to be an atheist it makes the term agnostic redundant.




Was that written on a tablet and given by god to Moses...or did you just make it up?

And why have you decreed that just abandoning the belief in a god makes one an atheist.

I have no belief in gods...AND I AM NOT AN ATHEIST.
missconduct
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 11:37 am
@Logicus,
Well, I have noticed the regular posters (that aren't proselytizing) are of greater intellect.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 12:00 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

I have no belief in gods...

That's my definition of a weak atheist. A person lacking a belief in gods is an atheist... IMO.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 01:04 pm
@IRFRANK,
I don't know if you've kicked it around, but you obviously have an ideosyncratic and probably unexamined definition of atheist. Atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive terms. I suggest that you look up "weak atheist," as well as implicit and skeptical atheist. The agnostic fanatics like Frank and the theists will certainly agree with your silly definitions.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 01:17 pm
@Setanta,
True, but the example set by the Ethical group is perfect rebuttal to the assertion that atheists might be evil or immoral.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 01:21 pm
@neologist,
Yeah, i was just pointing out that it is likely that people don't mention it because atheists are not, by and large, proselytizers. They don't care if anyone agrees with them.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 03:03 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I have no belief in gods...

That's my definition of a weak atheist. A person lacking a belief in gods is an atheist... IMO.


Well...that may be...but unless you can convince me that you have the final say, I am going to laugh at the idea.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 03:04 pm
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:

Quote:
I also found interesting the assertion that the majority of atheists are the so-called "weak" atheists--those who do not assert that there is no god, but who just don't believe it.


Would that not be an agnostic?

Atheist - Believes (asserts) there is no god or God.

Agnostic - Does not believe one way or the other.

Theist - Does believe.

Haven't we kicked this around a few times before?




I certainly agree with you, Frank. Of course, people like Setanta won't. But that is almost confirmation that your are correct.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 03:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
That's your prerogative... enjoy!
igm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 03:24 pm
@igm,
Weak atheism vs. agnosticism

What's the difference between weak atheism and agnosticism?

Strong atheism = All gods are nonexistent.

Weak atheism = I just don't "believe" in any gods but find some evidence and I'll consider it.

Agnosticism = I don't "know" if any gods exist, so I'll reserve judgement.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 04:11 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

Weak atheism vs. agnosticism

What's the difference between weak atheism and agnosticism?

Strong atheism = All gods are nonexistent.

Weak atheism = I just don't "believe" in any gods but find some evidence and I'll consider it.

Agnosticism = I don't "know" if any gods exist, so I'll reserve judgement.


So I am an agnostic.

If weak atheists want to call themselves weak atheists...fine with me.

In a sense, we are all agnostics...and I prefer to stick with that and not go further.

Of late, I have turned to the term "non-theist" which can easily describe both self-described atheists (of all stripe) and self-described agnostics.

Most of the self-described atheists I know in the non-cyber world are VERY strong atheists. Most of the self-described atheists I know on the Internet are weak atheists.

Me...if I have to choose only from atheist, strong atheist, weak atheist or agnostic...I will self-describe myself as an agnostic.

By the way...I have actually described my self-agnosticism in detail many tiems. I will stand by that.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 04:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
By the way...I have actually described my self-agnosticism in detail many tiems. I will stand by that.


I do like how you have described yourself but I do have to say that I have never met another agnostic that believes that anything is possible.

I wonder if this may be a unique type of agnosticism that deserves a special name.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 04:23 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
By the way...I have actually described my self-agnosticism in detail many tiems. I will stand by that.


I do like how you have described yourself but I do have to say that I have never met another agnostic that believes that anything is possible.

I wonder if this may be a unique type of agnosticism that deserves a special name.


Not sure what you are saying here, RL.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 04:28 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
I'm am not an atheist, Log.



I believe in the sun Wink
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 04:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I wonder if this may be a unique type of agnosticism that deserves a special name.



Not sure what you are saying here, RL.


I'm saying that you may have a special type of agnosticism because you think that anything is possible.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 05:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
I wonder if this may be a unique type of agnosticism that deserves a special name.



Not sure what you are saying here, RL.


I'm saying that you may have a special type of agnosticism because you think that anything is possible.


You gotta be kidding me.

Some theists think anything is possible; some atheists think anything is possible; some agnostics think anything is possible.

What are you saying?

In any case, MY AGNOSTICISM is a special type of agnosticism...which I have mentioned and clarified dozens upon dozens of times. I doubt you will find two agnostics who agree on all areas of their agnosticism...just as I doubt you will find two theists who agree on all areas of their theism...and just as I doubt you will find two atheists who agree on all areas of their atheism.

So what is your point?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 05:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
MY AGNOSTICISM:

I do not know if there is a GOD or if there are gods; I do not know if there are no gods; I see no reason to suspect gods cannot exist; I see no reason that suggests gods are needed to explain existence; I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 05:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

You gotta be kidding me.

Some theists think anything is possible;


Do any of them think that the devil could have created God?

Quote:
some atheists think anything is possible;


Do you know of one that makes this claim?

Quote:
some agnostics think anything is possible.


This does seem to be true because we know of at least one. Wink
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 05:41 pm
Given that atheists of all descriptions come to that from a position of skepticism, i seriously doubt that there are any atheists who believe that anything is possible. In fact, i find it childish and naïve to assert that there is anyone who thinks that anything is possible.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Aug, 2013 05:46 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
i find it childish and naïve to assert that there is anyone who thinks that anything is possible.


You must not know Frank very well?
 

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