Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 03:02 pm
I love it when the Muslim leadership proclaims that attacks by Muslims in the West have nothing to do with the religion of peace.


The Problem of Muslim Leadership
Another Islamist terror attack, another round of assurances that it had nothing to do with the religion of peace

By Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wall Street Journal, May 27, 2013

I've seen this before. A Muslim terrorist slays a non-Muslim citizen in the West, and representatives of the Muslim community rush to dissociate themselves and their faith from the horror. After British soldier Lee Rigby was hacked to death last week in Woolwich in south London, Julie Siddiqi, representing the Islamic Society of Britain, quickly stepped before the microphones to attest that all good Muslims were "sickened" by the attack, "just like everyone else."

This happens every time. Muslim men wearing suits and ties, or women wearing stylish headscarves, are sent out to reassure the world that these attacks have no place in real Islam, that they are aberrations and corruptions of the true faith.

But then what to make of Omar Bakri? He too claims to speak for the true faith, though he was unavailable for cameras in England last week because the Islamist group he founded, Al-Muhajiroun, was banned in Britain in 2010. Instead, he talked to the media from Tripoli in northern Lebanon, where he now lives. Michael Adebolajo—the accused Woolwich killer who was seen on a video at the scene of the murder, talking to the camera while displaying his bloody hands and a meat cleaver—was Bakri's student a decade ago, before his group was banned. "A quiet man, very shy, asking lots of questions about Islam," Bakri recalled last week. The teacher was impressed to see in the grisly video how far his shy disciple had come, "standing firm, courageous, brave. Not running away."

Bakri also told the press: "The Prophet said an infidel and his killer will not meet in Hell. That's a beautiful saying. May God reward [Adebolajo] for his actions . . . I don't see it as a crime as far as Islam is concerned."

The question requiring an answer at this moment in history is clear: Which group of leaders really speaks for Islam? The officially approved spokesmen for the "Muslim community"? Or the manic street preachers of political Islam, who indoctrinate, encourage and train the killers—and then bless their bloodshed?

In America, too, the question is pressing. Who speaks for Islam? The Council on American-Islamic Relations, America's largest Muslim civil-liberties advocacy organization? Or one of the many Web-based jihadists who have stepped in to take the place of the late Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born al Qaeda recruiter?

Some refuse even to admit that this is the question on everyone's mind. Amazingly, given the litany of Islamist attacks—from the 9/11 nightmare in America and the London bombings of July 7, 2005, to the slayings at Fort Hood in Texas in 2009, at the Boston Marathon last month and now Woolwich—some continue to deny any link between Islam and terrorism. This week, BBC political editor Nick Robinson had to apologize for saying on the air, as the news in Woolwich broke, that the men who murdered Lee Rigby were "of Muslim appearance."

Memo to the BBC: The killers were shouting "Allahu akbar" as they struck. Yet when complaints rained down on the BBC about Mr. Robinson's word choice, he felt obliged to atone. One can only wonder at people who can be so exquisitely sensitive in protecting Islam's reputation yet so utterly desensitized to a hideous murder explicitly committed in the name of Islam.

In the wake of the Boston Marathon bombing and the Woolwich murder, it was good to hear expressions of horror and sympathy from Islamic spokesmen, but something more is desperately required: genuine recognition of the problem with Islam.

Muslim leaders should ask themselves what exactly their relationship is to a political movement that encourages young men to kill and maim on religious grounds. Think of the Tsarnaev brothers and the way they justified the mayhem they caused in Boston. Ponder carefully the words last week of Michael Adebolajo, his hands splashed with blood: "We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying every day."

My friend, the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, was murdered in 2004 for having been insufficiently reverent toward Islam. In the courtroom, the killer looked at Theo's mother and said to her: "I must confess honestly that I do not empathize with you. I do not feel your pain. . . . I cannot empathize with you because you are an unbeliever."

And yet, after nearly a decade of similar rhetoric from Islamists around the world, last week the Guardian newspaper could still run a headline quoting a Muslim Londoner: "These poor idiots have nothing to do with Islam." Really? Nothing?

Of course, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not terrorists or sympathetic to terrorists. Equating all Muslims with terrorism is stupid and wrong. But acknowledging that there is a link between Islam and terror is appropriate and necessary.

On both sides of the Atlantic, politicians, academics and the media have shown incredible patience as the drumbeat of Islamist terror attacks continues. When President Obama gave his first statement about the Boston bombings, he didn't mention Islam at all. This week, Prime Minister David Cameron and London Mayor Boris Johnson have repeated the reassuring statements of the Muslim leaders to the effect that Lee Rigby's murder has nothing to do with Islam.

But many ordinary people hear such statements and scratch their heads in bewilderment. A murderer kills a young father while yelling "Allahu akbar" and it's got nothing to do with Islam?

I don't blame Western leaders. They are doing their best to keep the lid on what could become a meltdown of trust between majority populations and Muslim minority communities.

But I do blame Muslim leaders. It is time they came up with more credible talking points. Their communities have a serious problem. Young people, some of whom are not born into the faith, are being fired up by preachers using basic Islamic scripture and mobilized to wage jihad by radical imams who represent themselves as legitimate Muslim clergymen.

I wonder what would happen if Muslim leaders like Julie Siddiqi started a public and persistent campaign to discredit these Islamist advocates of mayhem and murder. Not just uttering the usual laments after another horrifying attack, but making a constant, high-profile effort to show the world that the preachers of hate are illegitimate. After the next zealot has killed the next victim of political Islam, claims about the "religion of peace" would ring truer.

Ms. Hirsi Ali is the author of "Nomad: My Journey from Islam to America" (Free Press, 2010). She is a fellow at the Belfer Center of Harvard's Kennedy School and a visiting fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 1,193 • Replies: 19
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NSFW (view)
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 06:47 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

One thing that sickens me about that attack which took place in my country, is the way that Yank dickheads and the whores that suck Uncle Sam's islamophobic cock think that they have anything to say about the matter. Just **** off. Please.




Excuse me Senor Contrex. People on this forum are from all over the world, and have an overwhelming interest in other countries' business. Many of those foreign opinions are sort of pejorative. You are well aware of the back seat drivers on this forum commenting on Israel's internal affairs, or the back seat drivers on this forum commenting on U.S. internal affairs.

The crude phallic pejoratives you authored above are really not deserving of the U.S. Remember it was British gals that taught American G.I.'s to have intercourse standing up during WWII. And, I do believe that western man's obsession with fellatio did not originate in Puritan America. Oui, Oui?

Please show some respect to the hand that protects you in a dangerous world.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 07:55 pm
@Advocate,
If Muslims weren't about peace, this world would be bedlam. It's like saying the IRA represent catholics or the mossad are representatives of all jews. Picking and choosing who you think represents a religion is dangerous and completely inept.
Advocate
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 15 Jun, 2013 09:22 am
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

If Muslims weren't about peace, this world would be bedlam. It's like saying the IRA represent catholics or the mossad are representatives of all jews. Picking and choosing who you think represents a religion is dangerous and completely inept.


What you say is in direct contradiction of Ms. Ali. But Ms. Ali presents indisputable facts. Your assertions seem to be baseless.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 01:50 am
@Advocate,
As an atheist former Muslim, connected to right-wing organisations, Ayaan Hirsi Ali reprents an opinion with similar value as socialist Atheist Jews do on the other side of the spectrum - a "chameleon of a woman", as the Economist characterised here.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 09:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

As an atheist former Muslim, connected to right-wing organisations, Ayaan Hirsi Ali reprents an opinion with similar value as socialist Atheist Jews do on the other side of the spectrum - a "chameleon of a woman", as the Economist characterised here.


It is a shame about her connection to right-wing oranizations (assuming that you are correct about that). Her piece is very good and seems entirely valid.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 12:46 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

It is a shame about her connection to right-wing oranizations (assuming that you are correct about that).
Certainly it's debatable, what you, I and others call right-wing organisations (like the "Danish People's Party" to which I referred).
But someone (here: Ayaan Hirsi Ali) who uses quotes from Anders Breivik's "manifest" to back her statement (as she did 2012), is ... a bit suspect.
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 02:02 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
But someone (here: Ayaan Hirsi Ali) who uses quotes from Anders Breivik's "manifest" ... is ... a bit suspect.


Advocate probably thinks Breivik is a soft-hearted European liberal. If he has heard of him.

Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 02:48 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
But someone (here: Ayaan Hirsi Ali) who uses quotes from Anders Breivik's "manifest" ... is ... a bit suspect.


Advocate probably thinks Breivik is a soft-hearted European liberal. If he has heard of him.




I gather that both Walter and you love to cavil. I guess you both get off on that.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 02:53 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
I gather that both Walter and you love to cavil. I guess you both get off on that.
Because of I don't like Breivik and what he wrote?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 03:05 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
From the speech of Ayaan Hirsi Ali on occasion of the Axel Springer Honorary Prize in Berlin
Quote:
Fourthly and finally, that one man who killed 77 people in Norway, because he fears that Europe will be overrun by Islam, may have cited the work of those who speak and write against political Islam in Europe and America – myself among them – but he does not say in his 1500 page manifesto that it was these people who inspired him to kill. He says very clearly that it was the advocates of silence. Because all outlets to express his views were censored, he says, he had no other choice but to use violence.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 07:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Advocate wrote:
I gather that both Walter and you love to cavil. I guess you both get off on that.
Because of I don't like Breivik and what he wrote?



No! But you have a long history of caviling. Do you have any friends?
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 07:46 am
I can testify to the fact that Walter has quite a number of a2k friends, whom he has spent quite some time with in extended visits to America and who have visited him in Germany, and who like him quite a lot, and his wife as well. Do you have any friends, Advocate?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 08:02 am
So tell me, Advocate. Who represents Christianity? Is it the Pope?Westborought Baptist Church? Tim McVeigh? The Serbian Christian genocidal killers? Southern Baptists? Right-wing fundamentalists? Unitarians concerned with social justice? the Russian Orthodox church? For that matter, who represents Judaism? The Hasidim? The Reform? the settler movement? Face it, all the major religions are as riven by factionalism as Islam, with groups at each others' throats, and sometimes at ours.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 08:16 am
@Advocate,
These acts of murders/terror surely have a connection to fringe elements of the Islam religion as must of Jim Jones had with Christianity at least but that there is something especially wrong with Islam more then other religions is a little over the top.

People who are sociopaths such as the Boston bombers will find reasons to kill be it a religion or a political reason/excuse and sell those reasons to low IQ followers. How many wars and conflicts and killings of whole communities of men women and children had been done in the name of Jesus after all.

Too bad that the human race does not wake up and we all become atheists as it is hard to justify killing is the name of no god or in the name of Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

Of course humans being humans we will find a way to justify mass murders in the name of Atheism.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 09:48 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Remember it was British gals that taught American G.I.'s to have intercourse standing up during WWII.

Who taught them before and after WWII? Was that some kind of USO thing?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:01 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
Do you have any friends?
You are a quite stupid hobby psychologist, Advocate, I think.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 11:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Advocate wrote:
Do you have any friends?
You are a quite stupid hobby psychologist, Advocate, I think.



Nasty, nasty! I must have hit a nerve. You love to nit-pick, and those who do have few friends.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 07:53 pm
then you must be very, very lonely, advocate.
0 Replies
 
 

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