6
   

Isn't Suicide the ONE Sin God Will Never Forgive?

 
 
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 02:49 am
Quote:
To my dear staff,

Over the past 33 years we’ve been together through every kind of crisis. Kay and I’ve been privileged to hold your hands as you faced a crisis or loss, stand with you at gravesides, and prayed for you when ill. Today, we need your prayer for us.

No words can express the anguished grief we feel right now. Our youngest son, Matthew, age 27, and a lifelong member of Saddleback, died today.

You who watched Matthew grow up knew he was an incredibly kind, gentle, and compassionate man. He had a brilliant intellect and a gift for sensing who was most in pain or most uncomfortable in a room. He’d then make a bee-line to that person to engage and encourage them.

But only those closest knew that he struggled from birth with mental illness, dark holes of depression, and even suicidal thoughts. In spite of America’s best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided. Today, after a fun evening together with Kay and me, in a momentary wave of despair at his home, he took his life.

Kay and I often marveled at his courage to keep moving in spite of relentless pain. I’ll never forget how, many years ago, after another approach had failed to give relief, Matthew said “ Dad, I know I’m going to heaven. Why can’t I just die and end this pain?” but he kept going for another decade.

Thank you for your love and prayers. We love you back.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/06/son-of-pastor-rick-warren-commits-suicide/?hpt=hp_t2

And shouldn't Pastor Warren know this? It seems to me that his people should have kept him from this display of ignorance.

edit: reading it again I get a ton of manipulative effort, this "we were there for you so you better be there for us" and if I am right "even though our kid committed the worst possible sin".
 
Rockhead
 
  5  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 03:08 am
@hawkeye10,
who are these people that should have kept him from this display of ignorance, and where can you get some...?

Rolling Eyes
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 03:14 am
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

who are these people that should have kept him from this display of ignorance, and where can you get some...?

Rolling Eyes



non responsive, you have been asked a question on Christian doctrine.
Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 03:17 am
@hawkeye10,
you are confusing catholicism with christianity.

about par for your course...

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 03:20 am
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

you are confusing catholicism with christianity.

about par for your course...




I grew up Congregational , and this is something I heard early. My wife and kids are indeed Catholic though.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 04:07 am
As a Lutheran we were taught about the all forgiving God - so He will forgive suicide.
The more pietistic protestans don´t see it that way and they do not see God as a all forgiving.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 08:26 am
Maybe in some religious belief, you can only be forgiven if you ask forgiveness. If you're dead, you can't ask. Just guessing, as religion isn't part of my background.
saab
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 09:46 am
@roger,
Let us hope the poor souls have a chance to confess, to be forgiven and St. Peter will open the gates to heaven.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 12:39 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:

As a Lutheran we were taught about the all forgiving God - so He will forgive suicide.
The more pietistic protestans don´t see it that way and they do not see God as a all forgiving.

thanks. It is possible that me being taught this was depression related, a lot of my upbringing was. my mom's side of the family were mostly farming poor land in Michigan during those times which was a very hard life....maybe the church stretched doctrine a bit trying to keep everyone present. or maybe this is a midwest thing where personal weakness was despised.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 12:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
“I promise you that any of the sinful things you say or do can be forgiven, no matter how terrible those things are. But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever.” — Mark 3:28-29 (CEV)
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 12:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
are you disputing the claim that some protestants teach that suicide is unforgivable by God?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 01:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
For the most part, I can't dispute what Protestants teach...because I have very little knowledge of what they teach.

Nothing in what I posted indicates that I was disputing anything.

You asked a question, "Isn't suicide the one sin God will never Forgive?"...and I furnished a quotation (purported to be from Jesus) that indicated that Jesus taught that any sin could be forgiven except an offense against the "Holy Spirit"...which can never be forgiven.

If the question is mostly about what Christianity says about sins that can or cannot be forgiven...I respectfully suggest that the teachings of Jesus might be almost as important to consider as the teachings of Protestants.

0 Replies
 
saab
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 02:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
I do not know what congregation your family belonged to during depression.
LCMS -Missouri Synod was and is not as reformed as ELCA.
I really do not all the denominations in Mid West there is also Wisconsin Synod.
The LCMS and the ELCA disagree about the nature and authority of the Bible.

The LCMS believes that the Bible is actually the Word of God, and therefore, is totally truthful, reliable and free from any error.

The ELCA, on the other hand, avoids making statements that confess the full truthfulness of the Bible. It holds that Scripture is not necessarily always accurate or trustworthy in all its details and parts. The ELCA tolerates and encourages methods of interpreting the Scripture that presuppose that the Bible contains error and is unclear about various doctrinal matters.

But as far as I know the Missoury Synod do not condem a person who commits suicide. Somemight,,,,
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 03:08 pm
@saab,
Once I decided that this so call god sounds like a prick I stopped listening, I was in the pews under protest. I don't know what sect we were.
0 Replies
 
Iamlife
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2013 09:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
I am so thankful that I know that all our hope should be in God and not in ourselves. My daughter died last year and I never question her salvation. My hope wasn't that she was good enough to be saved. My hope is in God who has made a way for us to have peace of mind, and we can leave our fears at the cross and go on with life. Peace of mind feels good when it comes to religion and hope for what the future may bring.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 05:34 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

are you disputing the claim that some protestants teach that suicide is unforgivable by God?

You're correct about what some denominations teach concerning suicide and I wondered about Warren's teachings when I heard about his son. I can't find anything online.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 07:05 am
@engineer,
I did some more research on the obscure site Wikipedia and found this. It sounds like just about everyone allows suicides into heaven.
Iamlife
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 08:01 am
@engineer,
One wonderful thing for the person who believes in God and the heaven he has prepared is that there are NO suicidal people there. There are no SINNERS there at all.
If any of us make it into God's heaven he will have to change us, because none of us are worthy. Believe in God, and find hope in what he is going to do. My hope will always be in God.
My beautiful daughter died when she was 28 years young, and I never question what happened to her at death. My hope is in God, not whether she was good enough when she died.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 09:08 am
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

you are confusing catholicism with christianity.

The Roman Catholic position on suicide is rather more nuanced. If the person was suffering from some kind of mental illness and committed suicide while not in full control of his or her mental faculties, then that's not a sin -- not even a venial sin. On the other hand, if it was done intentionally and without any mitigating psychological circumstances, then that is a mortal sin.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 10:36 am
@joefromchicago,
I am pretty sure that being depressed and offing yourself because you hurt and dont want to do life anymore is not good enough. the shrinks would judge all suiciders as mentally ill, that does not mean that God does.
 

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