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Human Colonys at Venus

 
 
neil
 
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2004 07:59 pm
One expert calculated that it would take 600 years to convert all the carbon dioxide to carbon and oxygen using all the solar energy that falls on Venus. So a million years may be how long it would take with present algae. Worse we would have to keep oxygen away from dead algae or they would burn like charcoal and return carbon dioxide to the atmosphere. I have an alternate plan, which is slightly faster, but not quite as Earth like.
The first steps in my plan is to develop a flying algae or equivalent by gene splicing. These would be released high in the Venus atmosphere where the temperature is as low as 55 degrees f. The cloud of algae would shade the atmosphere toward the poles of Venus so the cloud could extend somewhat lower in that direction except there would not be much sun light for photo synthesis. On the ground we would instal two "snow fences" each about 2400 miles long surrounding the North and South poles This would be like the Arctic circle and the Antarctic circle. The fence would catch dust, including dead algae and surplus fertilizer we would bring to the algae cloud. As the ring of hills grew taller we would have unbury the snow fence or replace it. In a few thousand years, the hills would be tall enough that surface wind in the direction of the poles, would rarely cross the hills. This might cause the poles of Venus to cool from 800 degrees f to 750 degrees f. Venus likely has a strong polar down draft, so the wind would continue to blow though the snow fence toward the equator of Venus, causing the Hills to continue to grow taller. Increasing the polar down draft may cool the poles from 750 to 700 degrees f. We would use some giant mirrors to reflect the wave length of light the algae can use for photo synthesis at the less lighted portions of the algae cloud. Other wave lengths would miss the planet, so as to avoid making Venus even hotter. Sun shades would cool the atmosphere in locations near the algae cloud so algae can expand into these volumes. In perhaps 1000 years the downdraft might be 1/10 % free oxygen, thanks to the efforts of the flying algae. It would then be necessary to sprinkle iron dust on any mounds of algae charcoal to keep the probability of charcoal fires low. This will remove some oxygen from the atmosphere, but we will have way too much oxygen if we ever get rid of most of the carbon dioxide. The algae cloud uses some of the solar energy to make more algae and the cloud shades the polar regions somewhat (combined with the cooling shades thousands of miles from Venus) perhaps cooling the polar regions from 700 to 650 degrees f.

Now we can start to deal with another problem; the layers of strong sulphuric acid in the upper atmosphere of Venus. Think of the polar regions as two giant swimming pools. We install two giant pool liners. We cool the polar down draft with sun shades, so it rains sulphuric acid for a week or two. Then we move the shades back where we were using them. The rain evaporates before it reaches the ground, The fertilizer dust and dead algae make mud in the giant pools. We put in a new liner on top of the very acid mud, cool the down draft etc until we have nearly all the atmospheric sulphuric acid in aquifers beneath the polar plataues which we have built from dead algae and surplus fertilizer. Now we may get some fresh water rain to make several more aquifers. By now the polar plateaus may be a mile higher than the average surface of Venus = cool from 650 degrees to 630 degrees f Can we allow the plateaus to grow taller? I think we risk stress on the crust of Venus if we add more weight resulting in Earthquakes = Venus quakes perhaps for the first time in a billion years. Perhaps by then we will have cost effective ways to cool the poles of Venus further.
A mile of material on top of the hot rock of the polar region will cool the regions to perhaps 600 degrees f. We can cool them another 500 degrees f with monster sun shades, but that has to be very costly even with very advanced technology. Neil
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2004 08:21 pm
Im not sure ive ever seen any information that stated we know what the venusian surface is like.
we can solve a lot of problems by spraying a hydrated lime aerosol into the atmosphere (a minor problem would be where would we get a planet load of hydrated lime). The lime would react with the sulfuric acid and wala, wed have gypsum snow. and water .

Or , we swing out huge reflecting panels in sustained orbits so theyd reflect a calculated amount of solar energy and induce a cooling cycle and enucleation of the acid then wed have acid rain for a while (coupla thousand years) then we seed with extremophilic bacteria cultures to restore a biomass and buffer the planet.

Why are we doing this?
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2004 08:32 pm
The Russian's managed to get one photo out before their probe shut down. The general conclusion and consensus of opinion was Why do we want to do this? The place looked like something out of Dante.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2004 09:22 pm
Actually Carl Sagan's thesis was speculation about the nature of the atmosphere and the surface conditons (very generally) of Venus. His hypothesis called for a surface pressure on the order of 90 "atmospheres" (approximately the pressure at a depth of 3000 feet below sea level) and a temperature on the order of 800-900 degrees Fratzenkugler. (I'm doing this from memory--and i first read about him and about his work in the early 1970's, i believe he wrote his thesis in the 60's.) His early career was involved in analyzing available data on Venutian conditions, and he predicted fairly accurately what the Russian probes would experience, to the extent that he could form a construct of the physical properties of the probes. He mentions that one Russian probe was crushed by atmospheric pressure before reaching the surface, but that the Russians claimed that the probe crashed, and put the mean surface at a point which Sagan's hypothesis would have regarded as fairly well elevated above the surface. He then contends that although admitting nothing, the Soviets constructed later probes to resist much higher pressures and temperatures, and that their subsequent probe landings confirmed his speculation. As Acq points out, the vision is of a right hellish place.

Mars would be much more "terra-formable." I do not sufficiently clearly recall the details, but i am fairly certain that it was at MIT that experiments were carried out with accelerating a non-descript mass within a "barrel" formed by a ring of long rods which were electrified at low voltage. I damn my failing memory and the poor quality of my scientific knowledge. That is because what occurred to me in hearing of this research (on television, obviously not the best of sources) was that if one were to transport the necessary components to the rings of Saturn, on could assemble such accelerators on the "ass end" of one of the giant methane or water ice snow balls which comprise the rings, and drill into the core, using the tailings in the accelerator rod arrays to "putt-putt" the whole shabang back to an arean orbit. It might take years to get to Mars from Saturn using such a method, but who the hell would care? Once in Mars orbit, it would only be necessary to remove the equipment for reuse, and attach the smallest number and size of disposable rockets necessary to precipitate the "berg" onto the surface of the planet at about the equator. Initionally, the arean atmosphere would be sufficiently thin that most would not burn up in entry.

Just some stray thoughts . . . and i wasn't even very stoned when it occurred to me . . . just a little . . .
0 Replies
 
Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2004 09:44 pm
Are you like that computer IT guy who fixes the office computers in SNL? MOOOVE!!
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 05:06 am
No Slap, i'm not in IT, these are some stray speculations from twenty years ago. Although i am familiar with SNL from its inception in the 1970's, i largely do not watch television, so your reference is meaningless to me.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 06:35 am
set, The pressure and the temperature are all a function of the bad luck atmosphere. sulfuric acid will ruin a perfectly good paint job on your ride. If we can buffer this and lower the CO2 , were in. we have the tehnology.I just wonder whats my motivation. i looked up some of the magellan photos and , so far as I can see, theres nothing on the radar returns that make Venus a 'must see"
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 06:48 am
Damn, I'm trying to sprout catgrass in a dark room, the US government is trying to export democracy to the third world and you guys are planet building. Which effort will succeed first, second and third?

Smile
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:55 am
Well, FM, Mars is a more desirable "terraforming" project because it would require far less "engineering" to achieve a habitable atmosphere. However, it has about one tenth the mass of our planet, and that means one third the gravitational pull. Russian experiences already tell us that prolonged weightlessness produces significant calcium loss in the skeletal structure, so the long-term affects of Martian habitation might be an evolutionary nightmare. Humans would not need to be so large and sturdy (comparatively) to operate in that gravitational well, but you have the problem that our craniums require a fairly large birth canal--to get smaller might mean little people with big crania, or little people who, like Pooh, were "bears of little brain."

Venus would be more attractive as more nearly resembling our planet in mass. Terraformed, Venus would not put much of a strain on our current physiognomy (sp?).

[Edit: the amount of expenditure in energy and resources to achieve either project, even given planet-wide cooperation, would be enormous, and therefore, the relatively lower cost of the attempt to terraform Mars makes it more attractive.]

Joe, your first named project is problematic--i wish you luck, but despair for the results. The second named project is likely to succeed when Hell freezes over, so if you see Old Nick sharpening his skates, you'll know you can now book that dream vacation in the sunny resort town of Basra. As for the last named project, if you don't hear from any of us for a long time . . .
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 04:19 pm
yes Joe, planet building by exporting terrarism . somehow these threads always turn to politics.

Set-Ive computed the amount for exporting buffer material to Venus . Its a very big number of tons , divided by carrying capacity of the space vehicles= number of trips. Coupla trillion here or there. Coul;d mean some real change. Need a tax cut to finance it by the economic stimulation effect.
Mars would be difficult in the other direction. It seems to not have a mantle so the atmospheric "engine" crapped out maybe a billion years ago. So wed have to get CO2 to stay put and not be driven off into space. so wed have to keep generating CO2 or other heavy greenhouse gases. Maybe we could send up a gazillion cans of hairspray.

Im here to help
its what I do
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 04:52 pm
That's why i'd think in terms of mining the rings of Saturn, you got nitrogen ice, methane ice, water ice . . . all kinds a groovy designer planet **** . . .
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neil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 04:54 pm
Great idea farmer man. My handbook says the gypsum looses all it's water at 163 degree c, That would be great to get rid of the last of the sulpheric acid in the atmosphere. Before that, quick lime CaO would nuetralize more acid per pound as the acid has some water to catalze the reaction.
I like the sulpheric acid in deep aquifers as the colonists could pump some out as needed. A hundred cubic miles of calcium sulphate would make more dry wall than I can imagine. Neil
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