12
   

What is the sound of one hand clapping

 
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 01:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
EDIT

correction:..... "Top down view"

(Note that this correction followed internal considering of what it/self had written half an hour ago.)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 10:50 am
@fresco,
Forgetting why we went upstairs has a name; it's called forgetfulnes or senility. Many also experience misplacing their keys; it's the same culprit, and those "minor incidences" do not impact the general direction of our lives.

You,
Quote:
Insofar as your generalities about "man" are relevant, it has been argued that the "self" is a social concept acquired via language, and it is a reflection or microcosm of its society (i.e. a "bottom down" view).


This has already been covered by my list of what influences our lives; biology, environment, education, culture, religion, parents, family, friends, etc., etc., etc.

"Those things" includes "language" and anything thing else you wish to list.

JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 11:13 am
@fresco,
This is consistent with writings regarding "self" by Nietzsche, Hume, Gurdjieff, Ouspenski--not to mention countless philosophers (East and West) in the tradtions of Buddhism and Hinduism.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 11:26 am
@cicerone imposter,
As one of my sources said, most people are content to sleepwalk through their lives. A thread about ko-ans is the antithesis of this because it implies there can be an awakening of an understanding of what we call "self" by a particular technique. Irrespective of technique ,one common finding is the disunified nature of self brought about by our ephemeral attachments.

Now you are entitled to ignore these findings, to belittle them, or attempt to dispute them according to your degree of contentment with your status quo, but they have influenced and will continue to influence philosophical developments.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 12:24 pm
@JLNobody,
You,
Quote:
"Buddhism and Hinduism"
are religions like all other religions; created by a "man." That they may seem "philosophical" to some doesn't change the fact that it's based on the belief that man can become "self-aware." Monks spend their lives seeking this "self-awareness," but as an atheist, I find their lives to be a waste. Praying and seeking food from adherents doesn't change what the world is.

For me, life is about expanding my knowledge about the different countries, cultures, food and drink, meeting people, seeing this planet that offers so much, and learn about the history and cultures of as many countries as I can muster, and what more can I learn about in this many faceted human library.

I get pleasure from visiting as many countries as possible, to mix with the people, eat their foods and drinks, meet new people, and learn about how humans live on this planet.

It's been an avocation of mine since I was in the USAF that provided me with the opportunity to visit Madrid, Paris, and London. When the travel bug bit me in the late fifties, I've been its slave ever since - and I love it.

That gives meaning to "my" life.


JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 04:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
C.I., I admire the way you have chosen to live your life: travel and intercultural exposure has undoubtedly broaden you more than the vast majority of us residents of cultural hickdom, i.e., most of us). Nevertheless, you also have a kind of enlightenment that you (and most of us) don't recognize. It is what Zen Buddhism refers to as your "original" (primitive?) mind, your zen/Big mind. But that is something you might learn to appreciate. One meditates not so much in order to gain enlightenment but to appreciate (or "authenticate") that which you already have from the beginning. Mystical enlightenment can be referred to by philosophers but it is not attainable by means of language contests.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 04:32 pm
@JLNobody,
I've never tried to gain "mystical enlightenment" throughout my life, and never considered it by any means of language contests. I've tried to find ways to improve my life and my families, and have contributed some 20 years of my working career to the developmentally disabled clients at the two nonprofit organizations I worked for. I have been "rewarded" well from job satisfaction, and from pay and benefits which now allows me to travel frequently.

I also believe we have been responsible to save for that rainy day and our retirement years. Religion has not been a major player in my life.


0 Replies
 
Janus D Strange
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 04:44 pm
@egs,
If you hold your hand in the open palm position then bend your four fingers very quickly so that they strike your palm you will hear a clapping sound, albeit not as loud as the sound of two hands clapping.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 04:57 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:
Mystical enlightenment can be referred to by philosophers but it is not attainable by means of language contests.


Then why is it that fresco and, (to a lesser extent) you too, seem to indulge in nothing but language contests on the so-called philosophy threads? Those threads aren't about anything except semantics; they express no ontological or metaphysical views, only clever discussions of what the meaning of "is" is.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2012 10:35 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
I don't see that at all, and I wonder why you do. As I see it we don't argue our positions; we try to stimulate awareness not to coerce acquiescence.
BTW, discussion of the meaning of "is" is an ontological exercise.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Nov, 2012 02:09 am
@JLNobody,
I concur. What is interesting to me as a former experimental psychologist is the interplay between the science and modern philosophy (and by the latter I mean focus on language especially as it relates to being or is-ness). I don't consider myself to be "spiritual" or "religious" in any sense, but I know their "coherence" selectively follow the deconstruction of what we normally call "reality" for practical purposes. It is this deconstruction (in the technical sense, rather than wanton sense) that proceeds via the analysis of language. If I am preaching any message at all it is that ignorance of these analyses is intellectually restrictive.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Nov, 2012 10:55 am
@fresco,
And THAT is a "spiritual" concern.
0 Replies
 
memelissascott
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 05:19 am
@Setanta,
The sound of one hand clapping is like a dark night.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 01:48 pm
@memelissascott,
Can't understand why anybody would vote down memelissascott's post: that's a perfectly accurate statement.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 01:52 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
...the usual trolling what else...
0 Replies
 
Qaf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 08:27 am
@egs,
I think this koan is an explicit statement of the conceptual heart of zen :

"Advaya, the nonduality of conventional and ultimate truth in Madhyamaka Buddhism. In Buddhist Madhyamaka it means that there is no absolute, transcendent reality beyond our everyday reality, and while things exist, they are ultimately "empty" of any existence on their own." - wikipedia
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2016 05:15 am
One hand doesn't clap by the same reason half a function does not compute...
Athens to irrationality are so poor in structure that as we can see they can't be uttered without immediately folling into nonsense.

This sort of questioning is an attempt on explaining emergence from criticall mass...why is any function X size ? Well, because it is suffices to me.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 10:10 am
Bart Simpson covered this years ago.

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 05:28 pm
@izzythepush,
...best post in the thread yet !
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2016 02:17 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Thank you.
0 Replies
 
 

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