7
   

Murder or compassion?

 
 
KRSmith
 
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 03:45 pm
If someone who is terminaly ill and is in so much pain they request that a loved one administer a precribed pain med in an excessive dose to ease their pain and hasten their death,would the loved one be a murderer?
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Type: Question • Score: 7 • Views: 1,215 • Replies: 19

 
Mame
 
  4  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 03:50 pm
@KRSmith,
Yes! However, I would put the meds within reach of the dying person and let them go at it.
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 03:57 pm
@KRSmith,
Both "murder" and "compassion" carry emotive baggage. Technically, such an act is "illegal" in many jurisdictions, but in the UK (for example) perpetrators are often treated with leniency.
KRSmith
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 04:14 pm
@Mame,
If that dying person was incapable of administering their own meds and was expected to live for no more than several days?
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 05:35 pm
@KRSmith,
It's illegal to help someone die, unfortunately. Don't do it. And if they're only expected to live for a few days, it's really not worth the jail time.
KRSmith
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 05:44 pm
@Mame,
Not concerned with the legal implications but the morality of the matter.The two people involved live in a very rural location and one is the only caregiver with minimal support...
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 05:57 pm
@KRSmith,
The morality is not at issue - we euthanasize our dogs, for pete's sake. At issue is the prison term!
KRSmith
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 06:47 pm
@Mame,
Still stuck on the moraity issue, this person had already lost another loved one just two months prior and is an emotionaly fragile state.Is it right for that person to not bring relief and comfort to someone who they love based on the constricts of law? Laws are broken on a daily basis,not that it makes them right but there seems to be a larger issue here.... the desire of one to hasten ones death and the need to spare the caregiver the continued horrors of watching someone die a protracted painful death,knowing the reality of the ultimate out come to me it seems more humane and understandable.To see someone writhe in pain seems more criminal to me,the law be damned.But that is just my own thought.What I do need to be is understanding and supportive of my friend and be able to help her deal with the morality that she will undoubtableyl have to cope with as well as the profound sense of grief that will be compounded by her earlier loss.Seems to me we show greater compassion towards animals....
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 07:04 pm
@KRSmith,
Following this thread along, I didn't realize that your concern was about the (perceived) morality of the issue. I thought we were talking about the liability following the act. From my pov, there is nothing whatever immoral about helping someone end one's suffering which will prove fatal in the long run anyway. The problem is the legal issue. Depending upon the jurisdiction, the perpetrator of this act of mercy may well be held liable under the prevailing law. If one is prepared to face the consequences, I think, the path is clear and the solution obvious.
KRSmith
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 07:23 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
I tend to agree with youPerhaps my wording was wrong to begin with I don't think she is concerned with the legal ramifications,her mother is actually dieing of advanced stages of COPD and had to advocate that her mother continue to recieve pain meds.Her Doctor had been vocaly against additional medication arguing that the pain meds would indeed surpress her respiration,however the Doctor had acquiesced to her request.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 07:44 pm
@KRSmith,
KRSmith wrote:

Still stuck on the moraity issue, this person had already lost another loved one just two months prior and is an emotionaly fragile state.Is it right for that person to not bring relief and comfort to someone who they love based on the constricts of law? Laws are broken on a daily basis,not that it makes them right but there seems to be a larger issue here.... the desire of one to hasten ones death and the need to spare the caregiver the continued horrors of watching someone die a protracted painful death,knowing the reality of the ultimate out come to me it seems more humane and understandable.To see someone writhe in pain seems more criminal to me,the law be damned.But that is just my own thought.What I do need to be is understanding and supportive of my friend and be able to help her deal with the morality that she will undoubtableyl have to cope with as well as the profound sense of grief that will be compounded by her earlier loss.Seems to me we show greater compassion towards animals....


There have been actual serial killers (working as nurses and medical staff) who used that same reasoning. They end up taking many lives who they deemed as suffering even if the patient in fact wished to live despite their medical condition.

As a question of morality? Does the patient give their explicit consent to these actions? Or is it the caretake who just doesn't want to witness suffering anymore? The patient's desire for life or death trumps all in terms of morality.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 07:47 pm
@tsarstepan,
I certainly can't argue with your last sentence, tsar.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 08:57 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
perpetrators are often treated with leniency.


'perpetrators' is kinda emotionally suitcased too, isn't it, F?
0 Replies
 
KRSmith
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 11:55 am
@tsarstepan,
Knowing my friend as well as I do,knowing that she is a deeply spiritual person who values the sanctity of life has no wish to harm a living soul,I can understand her pain and anguish.Her mothers request was not an impulsive request.Long before terminal illness had entered the equation there had been many discussions an debates concerning end of life issues within the family,and her mother had explicitly and adamantly argued that her wishes be respected and carrried out if it were to happen to her.My friend could hardly even by a extreme perverse sense be likened to a serial killer.The issues of morality are what she is experiencing that are conflicting with her love,loyalty,and deep sense of compassion for her mother.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 02:45 pm
@KRSmith,
Quote:
.My friend could hardly even by a extreme perverse sense be likened to a serial killer.

I wasn't saying that your friend was a potential serial killer but that many people can rationalize their acts and assume the mantel of good will and even godliness for what they do.

These nursing killers tend to justify their actions and think they're angels doing good for the public as well as their victims.

Whatever your friend decides, she needs not make this decision lightly. The consequences of being wrong are great.
KRSmith
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 02:52 pm
@tsarstepan,
Point well taken,however the slightest hint of a shared rationalization casts doubt upon the motivation of the plight of my friend.
0 Replies
 
KRSmith
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 05:20 pm
The question seems no longer relevant as death has prevailed....
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 05:34 pm
@KRSmith,
I'm glad for the ailing mother that she's out of her torment and also glad her daughter didn't have to follow through with anything illegal.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 06:27 pm
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
but that many people can rationalize their acts and assume the mantel of good will and even godliness for what they do.


You're very familiar with that type of behavior, aren't you, Tsars? That's what it takes to be an American. Here's a perfect example of that behavior.

John Stockwell on CIA Disinformation, Assassinations, and the U.S. Congress (1987) Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=X8pve_CGjME&feature=endscreen

Forty to fifty thousand innocent Nicaraguans slaughtered all because of Reagan's lies, Reagan's amoral behavior and yet he was supported by most of America.

0 Replies
 
yolandi
 
  0  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 03:30 pm
@KRSmith,
Seek anthropology for answers!!
0 Replies
 
 

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