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Proposed Global Ban on Blasphemy

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2012 11:49 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
if you're putting this in terms of justification, what justifies the extreme use of speech?


The human right to question and challenge any religion dogma and any faith that is in the public square.


One thing is the human right to question and challenge any religious dogma and any faith that is in the public square, another thing is the extreme use of speech thereof.

Quote:
There is no moral problem of any kind in such questioning with respect or without respect as it is just as must a right to question a faith or a belief system as it is to be a believers in such a system.


But that doesn't answer the question of what justifies extreme use of speech. That it's a right doesn't necessarily justify it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 01:02 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

And I repeat, one doesn't need to have freedom to read or speak to know that murder is wrong.
I agree. But obviously "murder" is defined differently in different legal systems of different countries.
For instance, if you kill a burglar, who doesn't threaten you with a deadly weapon, with a deadly weapon, is an "infliction of bodily harm causing death" (minimum sentence not less than three years, in less serious cases the penalty shall be imprisonment from one to ten years [ยง 227 StGB]). In the USA, it's legal self defence ...
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 03:57 am
@InfraBlue,
I sure did answer the question but second you do not have a right to call my free speech or anyone else free speech extreme and ban it or interfere with it in any way or in any manner.

With special note of interfering with it by means of killings of others during riots , burning down buildings or placing hit contracts out on the speaker in question.

If I feel like stating to the world that the founder of Scientology was a third rate science fiction author in the 1950s who was also a conman who dream up a silly religion for $$$$ that is my right.

An if I consider the founder of the Muslin faith to had been a low level raider along the trade routes and a man who dream up a faith for similar reasons to the founder of Scientology a thousands years afterward that is also my right.

Or that Jesus is not the son of god and just one of the many cult leaders that came along during that period in the outskirts of the Jewish community of that time period.

None of this is extreme as the very concept of extreme speech is not valid.

0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 06:20 am
The European legal database, IRIS, recounts a 1996 decision by the European Court of Human Rights concerning a video alleged to be blasphemous:

Quote:
European Court of Human Rights: Banning of blasphemous video not in breach of freedom of (artistic) expression
(Dirk Voorhoof, Media Law Section of the Communication Sciences Department, Ghent University, Belgium)

On 25 November 1996, the European Court of Human Rights decided in the Wingrove case that the refusal to grant a distribution certificate in respect of a video work considered blasphemous, was not in breach of Article 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights ( see also the decision by the European Court of Human Rights in the Case of Otto Preminger vs. Austria of 20 September 1994, Series A vol. 295, IRIS 1995-1:3).

Nigel Wingrove, a film director residing in London, was refused a certificate by the British Board of Film Classification, because his videofilm "Visions of Ecstasy" was considered as blasphemous. The film evocates the erotic fantasies of a sixteenth century Carmelite nun, St Teresa of Avila, her sexual passions in the film being focused inter alia on the figure of the crucified Christ. As a result of the Board's determination, Wingrove would have committed an offence under the Video Recordings Act 1984 if he were to supply the video in any manner, whether or not for reward. The director's appeal was rejected by the Video Appeals Committee. Wingrove applied to the European Commission of Human Rights, relying on Article 10 of the European Convention for the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms.

Although the Commission in its report of 10 January 1995 ( see IRIS 1995-5:4) expressed the opinion that there had been a violation of Article 10 of the Convention, the Court comes to the conclusion, by seven votes to two, that there had been no violation of the applicant's freedom of (artistic) expression, the British authorities being fully entitled to consider that the impugned measure was justified as being necessary in a democratic society for the protection of the rights of others. The Court underlined that whereas there is little scope for restrictions on political speech or on debate of questions of public interest, a wider margin of appreciation is available to the national authorities restricting freedom of expression in relation to matters within the sphere of morals or especially, religion. The Court also took into consideration that the English law on blasphemy does not prohibit the expression, in any form, of views hostile to the Christian religion: it is the manner in which these views are advocated which makes them blasphemous.

On the other hand the Court did not find a counter argument in the fact that legislation on blasphemy exists only in few other European countries and that the application of these laws has become increasingly rare. Furthermore, the Court had no problem with the fact that the English law on blasphemy only extends to the Christian faith. Neither did the Court estimate the measure as disproportionate, although it was recognised that the measures taken by the authorities amounted to a complete ban of the film's distribution. Such a far-reaching measure involving prior restraint, was considered as necessary, because otherwise in practice, the film would escape any form of control by the authorities. The measure in other words had to be far-reaching in order to be effective. Having viewed the film for itself, the Court is satisfied that the decisions by the national authorities cannot be considered to be arbitrary or excessive. The Court ultimatily reached the conclusion that the British authorities did not overstep their margin of appreciation and that the impugned measure against "Visions of Ecstasy" was not a violation of Article 10 of the Convention.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 07:09 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
The European legal database, IRIS, recounts a 1996 decision by the European Court of Human Rights concerning a video alleged to be blasphemous:


Thank god for the US founding fathers wisdom in creating the first amendment and for keeping religion or anti-religion disagreements outside the government sphere of concern.

To the degree that Europeans allow their free speech rights to be interfere with is the degree that they are not in fact a free people.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 07:23 am
@wandeljw,
In fact the very concept of Blasphemy belong back in the dark past of the human race on the torture racks of the Spanish inquistion or the pile of lumber used to burn Joan of Arc to death.

tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 07:31 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

In fact the very concept of Blasphemy belong back in the dark past of the human race on the torture racks of the Spanish inquistion or the pile of lumber used to burn Joan of Arc to death.



I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 08:44 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

To the degree that Europeans allow their free speech rights to be interfere with is the degree that they are not in fact a free people.


And I agree with this. Censorship, and prior censorship, at that.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 08:49 am
@roger,
The problem is that many Muslims feel wonderful about living in the Dark Ages (It wasnt so dark for them back then but many havent moved beyond their "Golden Ages")
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 09:01 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
The problem is that many Muslims feel wonderful about living in the Dark Ages (It wasnt so dark for them back then but many havent moved beyond their "Golden Ages")


Hell their high water mark was in the late 1400 or so if memory serve me correctly so you would think that by this time they would let the past go at least somewhat.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 09:02 am
@farmerman,
I acknowledge their right to peaceably occupy any age they wish.

Notice the word "peaceably".
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 09:10 am
@roger,
Quote:
I acknowledge their right to peaceably occupy any age they wish.

Notice the word "peaceably".


Yes, but their "Golden Ages" was when they were swinging swords around and giving people the choice of converting or having their heads cut off.

Of course with the Jews and the Christians they was not suppose to force such conversions at sword point just tax the non Muslins people of the book and take some of the male children of the Christians and turn them into a slave army.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 10:17 am
@BillRM,
Yep. The Janissary troops.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 10:31 am
And now there is this:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tomatoes-are-christian-egyptian-salafi-group-warns--.aspx?pageID=238&nID=23713&NewsCatID=393

Joe(No more Tabbouleh for You!)Nation
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 10:34 am
@Joe Nation,
watch yo phemy
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 12:35 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Hell their high water mark was in the late 1400 or so if memory serve me correctly so you would think that by this time they would let the past go at least somewhat.


"Let the past go"? For two millenia, Christians have been acting like the Crucifixion was last week. Jews celebrate the Exodus like it was last week. On Columbus Day there is a parade that makes people of Italian descent feel that Columbus' discovery somehow reflects on them today. The same goes for other ethnic parades.

It just has to do with one's perception of time, and whether the past feels closer than it really is.

These type of culture clashing would have occurred earlier, except electronics only came into existence about 100 years ago with radio. Before that we lived in separate worlds.



farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 01:06 pm
@Foofie,
the Xtians and JEws "celebrate" , some Muslims "Live it" sort of like AMish. The only difference is that Amish preach toelrance and fdorgiveness. Dont be ridiculous
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 01:25 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

the Xtians and JEws "celebrate" , some Muslims "Live it" sort of like AMish. The only difference is that Amish preach toelrance and fdorgiveness. Dont be ridiculous


As a U.S. citizen, it is my right to be ridiculous, if I so choose. This forum has too many hyper-serious people on it anyway, in my opinion. A gathering of inflated egos, in my opinion. I am standing at the corner of Pomposity and AllWise.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 01:52 pm
@Foofie,
dont stand IN the traffic.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 02:44 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

dont stand IN the traffic.


Roger that!
0 Replies
 
 

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