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Proposed Global Ban on Blasphemy

 
 
wandeljw
 
  3  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 04:59 pm
@Mame,
Both intent and violent consequences need to be present.

For example, we already know that the anti-Muslim film caused violent riots. The filmmaker could be prosecuted under U.S. law only if there is evidence that he conspired to provoke violence with the film (probably very difficult to prove).
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 04:59 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Wonderful security protocol you're using there. (Insert rolly-eyed emoticon here.)


Well if it come to be that if someone does not like a video you had uploaded to youtube and you can be faced with criminal charges for Blasphemny or a hate crime or even find that a Pakistan government officer had placed a 100 thousands hit contract on your head having such security protocols might be useful Drunk

It had in fact been proving useful on a daily bases in such countries as China.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 05:01 pm
@Mame,
Quote:
So what if you INTEND to incite but nobody bites? Aren't you still guilty of intent to incite?

This is a ridiculous conversation


Agree completely and once more thanks god fot the 1 amendment.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 05:04 pm
@wandeljw,
How can anybody prove INTENT TO INCITE? They could just be 'sharing', speaking their mind, and aren't responsible for the actions or reactions of other people.

Edit: I mean, unless he's saying, "Go home, get your guns, we're gonna kill all the sons-of bitches." kind of thing.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 05:05 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
The filmmaker could be prosecuted under U.S. law only if there is evidence that he conspired to provoke violence with the film (probably very difficult to prove).


An if he knew is might cause riots and just did not give a **** one way or another as far stopping his first amendment rights to make the film in question?

0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 05:09 pm
@Mame,
....if they shared the fact that they expect their hate speech to provoke a violent reaction. Evidence would include correspondence, e-mails, recorded conversations where the person states he expects that his message will cause violence.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 05:11 pm
@Mame,
Quote:
Edit: I mean, unless he's saying, "Go home, get your guns, we're gonna kill all the sons-of bitches." kind of thing


So far that is the only way the 1 amendment does not offer protection if it is an immediate dangerous situation not making a video and a week or so afterward someone riot on the other side of the earth because of that video.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 05:20 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
....if they shared the fact that they expect their hate speech to provoke a violent reaction. Evidence would include correspondence, e-mails, recorded conversations where the person states he expects that his message will cause violence.


So let me get this straight if you expected ahead of time that there is a real chance that by your exercising your free speech rights would cause someone to riot that should end stop your rights to express your opinions?

You are for giving mobs of people in other nations the power to stop free speech rights in the US under pusnishment of law?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 05:45 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
....if they shared the fact that they expect their hate speech to provoke a violent reaction. Evidence would include correspondence, e-mails, recorded conversations where the person states he expects that his message will cause violence.


So let me get this straight if you expected ahead of time that there is a real chance that by your exercising your free speech rights would cause someone to riot that should end stop your rights to express your opinions?

You are for giving mobs of people in other nations the power to stop free speech rights in the US under pusnishment of law?


Not merely "a real chance" but actual evidence that you are conspiring to cause violence through your message. This would be very hard to prove.

Let's say, for example, that a prosecutor finds a letter raising money for a film where the filmmaker promises potential investors that his film will be certain to cause riots and show the world how violent the followers of that religion are.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 06:17 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Not merely "a real chance" but actual evidence that you are conspiring to cause violence through your message. This would be very hard to prove.


Conspiring with others to cause other people you and whoever you are conspiring with that have no connection with to riot!!!!!!!!

Sorry the whole concept is silly in my opinion as no matter what is in a person heart it does not change his right of free speech even if he is almost sure that there will be riots or even wish for riots for that matter.

The only ones who are responsibility for riotes are the rioters not a video producer or a book writer halfway around the world.

I am fairly sure that the Turner Diary author heart was not broken when the Federal building in OK was blown up using the means that he details in his book but he was still not responsibiltiy for the deed.

0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2012 06:40 pm
@Mame,
You mean like Ted Nugent?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 09:31 am
Quote:
UN must implement resolutions against blasphemy: OIC
(PressTV.com, October 1, 2012)

The secretary general of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) has called on the United Nations and Human Rights Council (HRC) to implement their resolutions against religious defamation.

Speaking to Turkish reporters in New York on Sunday, Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu referred to the resolutions approved by the UN and the HRC that ban insulting religions, saying “These laws must be implemented.”

The UN General Assembly and the Human Rights Council have passed two resolutions that ban insult against religions, he added.

The remarks by Ihsanoglu come amid the growing global outrage over a US-made movie that insults Prophet Mohammad. The anger was further fueled by sacrilegious cartoons published in a French magazine.

The OIC foreign ministers recently adopted a resolution against the recent profane movie and the blasphemous caricatures.

The resolution termed these acts of profanity as a violation of freedom of speech and “sheer acts of incitement to hatred, discrimination and hostility towards Muslims, their peaceful religion Islam and the Holy Prophet Mohammad.”

Muslims in Iran, Turkey, Sudan, Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Pakistan, India, Iraq, Gaza, Morocco, Syria, Kuwait, Nigeria, Kenya, Australia, Britain, the United States, France, Belgium, and some other countries have held many demonstrations to condemn the blasphemous film.

The angry protesters demand an apology by the US government over the anti-Islam movie.

The American-made anti-Islam movie is said to have been made with the help of the Zionist donations totaling USD five million.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 10:21 am
@wandeljw,
If the muslins wish to reduce any disrespect their faith is held in by the rest of the human race I would suggest they try to clean up their own house and by doing so decrease that disrespect.

Trying to ban people from expressing disrespect that they might hold is a losing idea from the start in any case. With special note of the exists of the internet making censorship of that kind a great deal harder then it was in the past.

As far as this video I to would be interest in who fund this nonsense. Somehow the idea that Jews did so seems unlikely and more likely right wing Christians or even Muslims who wish for an excuse to drum up anti West feelings in the so call Arab street.





0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 10:25 am
I am not in favor of any law restricting speech, but in the interim, could we have a law that says you cannot speak against reason, logic and science?

That would restrict Spendius a great deal, but I think we could use the rest.

Joe(yes. It would be worth it)Nation
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 10:35 am
Quote:
The American-made anti-Islam movie is said to have been made with the help of the Zionist donations totaling USD five million.


This particular series of lies in a single sentence was proven false very shortly after first being reported. Your source needs to catch up.

http://www.onthemedia.org/2012/sep/21/bamboozled-bacile/

The phrase "is said to have been made" does not relieve the media from actually finding out the facts of the matter.

Joe(so much harder to do than just spewing out whatever comes across your desk)Nation
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 11:08 am
From a press briefing by the Spokesperson for the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights on September 21, 2012:

Quote:
Both the film and the cartoons are malicious and deliberately provocative. The film in particular provides a disgracefully distorted image of Muslims. The High Commissioner said she fully understands why people wish to protest strongly against the film, and the same goes for the cartoons, and it is their right to do so, but peacefully. She also utterly condemned the killings in Benghazi. Some 30 people in all are now believed to have died in events linked to the film. And there have been other violent and destructive reactions. The High Commissioner urged religious and political leaders to make a major effort to restore calm. We welcome the fact that a number of senior Muslim figures have been making similar statements about the need to rise above the provocations.

The film and cartoons are the latest in a string of deliberately provocative acts or products targeting particular religions and their followers – several of which have led to similar violent reactions and killings. The High Commissioner said that sometimes the best way to deal with such provocations was to ignore them. “Deliberate and obnoxious acts of this type should be deprived of the oxygen of publicity,” she said. Given what happened last week, and the fact that people are being killed, Charlie Hebdo is doubly irresponsible to publish these cartoons.

As both the Secretary-General and the High Commissioner have stated, the fault line is not between Muslim and non-Muslim societies, but between a small number of extremists on different sides, with a vested interest in stirring hostility and conflict.

In March 2011, the Human Rights Council passed a unanimous resolution (Res 16/18) that provides a comprehensive road map for a coordinated national and international effort to ensure that certain rights and freedoms are not misused to undermine other rights and freedoms. In addition, over the years, a number of human rights mechanisms have contributed to efforts to clarify where the lines should be drawn between free speech and hate speech.

Essentially the debate revolves around Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (freedom of expression) and Article 20 (which is about incitement to hatred). Since October 2008, the High Commissioner for Human Rights has been spearheading a global effort to promote a legal framework based on international human rights standards to discuss freedom of expression and the need to enforce the prohibition of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 02:09 pm
@wandeljw,
There is no human right nor should it be, not to have your religion believes question or even insulted for that matter.

To try to created such a "right'" by taking the rights of others to have free speech is as morally wrong as can be.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 02:10 pm
I agree with Mame: the whole thing is largely pretty silly.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 05:37 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Here's why it's not so silly.

Except for the last 20 years or so of human history, "politically correct" notions would have had no on world affairs, but, sad to say, they now do. Global Warming is a perfect example, and defending Islamists is the latest.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 05:43 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
defending Islamists is the latest.


Defending Islamists can only be done within that religion/culture and the more bad behaviors such as large scale riots and hit contracts being taken out the more the faith will be attack and rightly so.
 

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