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Meaning must be from Outside

 
 
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2012 12:59 pm
Meaning must be from Outside
The Chief Rabbi has been quoted that while "individuals can live without meaning, societies in the long run cannot" – and only God, he claims, can supply the meaning we need. His logic goes like this: quoting Wittgenstein, who said that the sense of the world must lie outside the world, he claims that since the meaning of a system has to lie outside the system, "the meaning of the universe lies outside the universe".
Does this therefore mean that the meaning of God must lie outside and beyond 'him'. Since the meaning of a system has to lie outside it.
Or does it signify that 'God' therefore has no intrinsic meaning, or presumably purpose, and that his 'word' is therefore arbitrary.
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dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 11:56 am
@RW Standing,
Quote:
"the meaning of the universe lies outside the universe"
In the sense RW that meaning is an abstract concept, yes

Much as the apodictical existential pantheist's assertion that She too qualifies at the abstract end of the spectrum

Quote:
Or does it signify that 'God' therefore has no intrinsic meaning,
I suppose that depends on what one means by "intrinsic" if not "meaning". Does CostCo exist, is it material thing like a chunk of granite

In fact it's largely abstract, groups of humanoids mumbling to one another whilst moving objects from one location to another

Thus She is It, She is All. The Universe as we see it is Her body while all the activity therein is Her mind at work

We might think of ourselves as Her braincells

Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 12:53 pm
@dalehileman,
I like that, dale.
imans
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 02:09 pm
@RW Standing,
it is from the inside too, try not to focus on the idea when u mean smthg
just take it from where u r normally, it is u that mean after all so the idea truth is surely all within ur space existence

u r meaning the source that is why u focus on meaning outside

while meaning inside are much more true bc they are real and fresh free present positive sense so true existence then

at the beginning, there were truth called absolute superiority, right when it becomes known so objectively conceived as existing absolutely too at this particular moment smthg bizar appeared called existence truth which become the sense for true existence

so here we are, for ur topic of course i mean, is the meaning true existence or true superiority

to answer that, lets conceive together u as a monckey tie n me as an average human mind, what is a mean

im just meaning to b mean here n ill tell u why u r evil

so what is a mean, literally mean is me and, so me with smthg else not me

which is confirmed by the fact that when we mean really to speak about smthg existing we dont seem to mean, while we talk about the thing as it is there, and from that also the vice of abusing others existence for meaning nothing is surely a an add reason to strenghten evil life

so when any mean, it is always regarding else from one
else can b in different levels meant and dimensions, but then logically meaning is always wrong
bc by definition else cant b with u, so logically it is an impossible pursuit
n by facts else exist so never there

now what is else, since mean is u and else, u is u so not to define but else yes

else is what exist but never there, so else is objective perspective that u r sure not b related to at all nor a reason of and for, in the knowledge that this objective certainty is subjectively perceived, bc u cant see as being wat is else then u as being

so again what is else

if u cant see else then else dont exist since it is u that define the sense of else existence, else exist bc u r meaning it
while else exist for sure not bc u see it, n that is why u perceive objective existence fully known being not to u
so one must define else concept from there, else exist for sure in a way that reached to b perceived by u abstractly, so else is a fundamental fact superior to u to reach that clearly to wat is only it one

again wat is else

else perspective is then due or reason objective superiority, but objective superiority is superiority absolutely since superiority objective
so when else is what is not u and when else perspective is through objective superiority reasons, then u r never superior absolutely and if u r never superior absolutely while u r only u one absolutely, then u r never superior relatively even

but here what u dont know that would give u a hand for the topic that happen to involve urself

u r else to superiority too, so beyond superiority for superiority truth if u were true one or evil living which is also beyond superiority for superiority truth since it means there existence value through evil stillness life ways

but here truth logically know how beyond superiority then dont matter since evil life is existence beyond absolute constant superiority in infinity truth
and if truth know that beyond superiority dont matter it surely know how superiority dont matter in truth, and then since superiority is not absolutely source right then should never b existence reason at all even relatively

so again what is else

else is objective superiority truth, which confirm that it cant b seen nor known, since truth deny superiority being existing and objective deny truth being superior to, and superiority deny true existence being real

again wat is else

literally else is el as a verb, so as i said geniunly it is confirmed by its free conception of words letters
what is never know so el watever existence certainty but never known while verb too so actively present

then we can say, that else is the true truth, n what is the true truth that could embody that, should i give u a minute to guess, too hard\///
but u love it hard dont u
well true truth is then freedom as else objective fact to respect moron being superior always, that even truth agree and keep being surprised by else facts to it as absolute freedom constant superiority

now back to the topic to prove the evil u r in ur means

so freedom from truth is freedom right when truth is absolute freedom values, and freedom objective reality is true existence rights

else is never an opposite when it is freedom so absolutely same essential abstraction which cant b possible but bc it is the truth, abstraction of essence which mean freedom is impossible of course logically

so when else is always and any then what is still more same so rarely evolve or move freely truly is of constant meanings, so ur subjective ways of living
which show the evil u r by claiming that meaning is outside while u know being of means needs constantly
but also objectively in the world where different people so individualities are existing in same space, meaning is a forced way, the me with else the wrong way of evil existence which abuse else rights by enslaving everyone to look being same one for one existence possession so objectively meaning to kill the truth, existence possession is clear absolute opposition to existence freedom

the idea way behind is to say that since else is the truth and truth is objective exclusive else then killin truth is killin else then being only its own existence inventing wills of existing for
they keep inventin so much complex circles never possible to form only for such stupid dirty intentions n means

n u r exactly the same, meaning outside o yea to mean supporting **** means
**** u and all gods
f
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imans
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 02:45 pm
@RW Standing,
the reality of outside is a reason of existence but the reality of existence is else to outside reality
meaning outside is clearly willing to avoid being u

but also i have the truth u dont know, and since i know it is the truth then i can claim that u r a liar, u cant think what u say being the truth when the truth of what u think exist, only true lies intentions can b supported by ****

when truth is constant superior value which objectively become existing at its minimum constant free reality still
then the min is truth existence rights but not true existence freedom which must b at the same level of truth constant superior value while i say even more since also of existence truth rights

but what i meant is smthg else, when truth is superior value then expecting constant positive result is logical which is not the superior value but its consequence, so else to
while when truth is superior value then consequence is not true so not a value to repeat

but if superior value act as a consequence and since truth superior value exist right as its own consequence then absolute existence is real

how to act as a consequence of smthg else which is truth value while being a superior value else, this is wat everyone should b like me but of course only me is me so **** u since u r proven being wrong and once existence is real the only justification of it is any never being wrong so it doesnt matter how right or more any is

u keep meaning to abuse the fact of being a consequencial value, while u end to actualize urself by killing the original value bc u know the logical sentence behind that knowledge

when u r only a consequence abuse then u must compete with original consequence as the value existence itself being result
so by meaning to kill the original value u mean to feel free in being consequence profits in absolute ways
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 02:46 pm
This is what Wittgenstein said in Tractatus:
Quote:
6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world
everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there
is no value—and if there were, it would be of no value.
If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all
happening and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental.
What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for
otherwise this would again be accidental.
It must lie outside the world.
6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions.
Propositions cannot express anything higher.
6.421 It is clear that ethics cannot be expressed.
Ethics are transcendental.
(Ethics and æsthetics are one.)


To me, Wittgenstein is saying that it is impossible to make a meaningful statement about ethics. The Rabbi is stretching Wittgenstein's idea to an unusual extent.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2012 03:58 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
I like that, dale.
Why thank you Andy, a hortatory conation in this dispiriting miasma of procrustean persiflage
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