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Justification of "Humanitarian" Military Intervention

 
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 03:23 pm
@gungasnake,
Oh, yeah, because Russia is so impartial.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 03:24 pm
Why Russia Is Backing Syria
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:21 pm
@revelette,
As usual there is more than one motive in this one and the NYT article altogether leaves out one motive which may or may not be important (I believe it is very important), which is the protection of Christians in the world.

Russia takes Christianity seriously.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Panoramio_-_V%26A_Dudush_-_Moscow._%D0%A5%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BC_%D0%A5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8F._Moscow._The_Cathedral_of_Christ_the_Saviour.jpg

http://www.stranatur.ru/cms_files/Image/o(1).jpg
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 06:31 am
@gungasnake,
Well, I would hope not. There should be better ways to address religious tolerance than dispersing chemical weapons and killing protestors. Speaking scripturally, Jesus said he had ten legions of angels to fight for him, we don't need to physically fight for Christianity because the kingdom is inside ourselves wherever we are.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 07:47 am
@revelette,
Quote:
There should be better ways to address religious tolerance than dispersing chemical weapons and killing protestors.


As I said, it isn't clear that the Syrian government has actually done any such.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 07:46 am


U.S. Military Option In Syria Being Weighed, Chuck Hagel Says

Quote:
ABOARD A MILITARY AIRCRAFT OVER THE PACIFIC -- The Pentagon is moving naval forces closer to Syria in preparation for a possible decision by President Barack Obama to order military strikes, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel suggested on Friday.

Hagel declined to describe any specific movements of U.S. forces. He said Obama asked that the Pentagon to prepare military options for Syria and that some of those options "requires positioning our forces."

U.S. Navy ships are capable of a variety of military action, including launching Tomahawk cruise missiles, as they did against Libya in 2011 as part of an international action that led to the overthrow of the Libyan government.

"The Defense Department has a responsibility to provide the president with options for contingencies, and that requires positioning our forces, positioning our assets, to be able to carry out different options – whatever options the president might choose," Hagel said.

He said the U.S. is coordinating with the international community to determine "what exactly did happen" in the reported use by the Syrian government of chemical weapons against civilians earlier this week.

"We're still assessing that," he said.

Hagel said a determination on the chemical attack should be made swiftly because "there may be another attack coming," although he added that "we don't know" whether that will happen.

Hagel said that although he is scheduled to spend the next week traveling in Southeast Asia, he will remain in contact with the White House about developments in Syria and planning for potential U.S. action.

gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 08:40 am
@revelette,
Quote:
U.S. Navy ships are capable of a variety of military action, including launching Tomahawk cruise missiles, as they did against Libya in 2011 as part of an international action that led to the overthrow of the Libyan government.


The hand of George Soros...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD14Ak02.html

Quote:


Libya all about oil, or central banking?
By Ellen Brown

Several writers have noted the odd fact that the Libyan rebels took time out from their rebellion in March to create their own central bank - this before they even had a government. Robert Wenzel wrote in the Economic Policy Journal:

Quote:
I have never before heard of a central bank being created in just a matter of weeks out of a popular uprising. This suggests we have a bit more than a rag tag bunch of rebels running around and that there are some pretty sophisticated influences.


Alex Newman wrote in the New American:

Quote:
In a statement released last week, the rebels reported on the results of a meeting held on March 19. Among other things, the supposed rag-tag revolutionaries announced the "[d]esignation of the Central Bank of Benghazi as a monetary authority competent in monetary policies in Libya and appointment of a Governor to the Central Bank of Libya, with a temporary headquarters in Benghazi."


Newman quoted CNBC senior editor John Carney, who asked, "Is this the first time a revolutionary group has created a central bank while it is still in the midst of fighting the entrenched political power? It certainly seems to indicate how extraordinarily powerful central bankers have become in our era."

Another anomaly involves the official justification for taking up arms against Libya. Supposedly it's about human rights violations, but the evidence is contradictory. According to an article on the Fox News website on February 28:

Quote:
As the United Nations works feverishly to condemn Libyan leader Muammar al-Qaddafi for cracking down on protesters, the body's Human Rights Council is poised to adopt a report chock-full of praise for Libya's human rights record.

The review commends Libya for improving educational opportunities, for making human rights a "priority" and for bettering its "constitutional" framework. Several countries, including Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia but also Canada, give Libya positive marks for the legal protections afforded to its citizens - who are now revolting against the regime and facing bloody reprisal.

Whatever might be said of Gaddafi's personal crimes, the Libyan people seem to be thriving. A delegation of medical professionals from Russia, Ukraine and Belarus wrote in an appeal to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin that after becoming acquainted with Libyan life, it was their view that in few nations did people live in such comfort:
[Libyans] are entitled to free treatment, and their hospitals provide the best in the world of medical equipment. Education in Libya is free, capable young people have the opportunity to study abroad at government expense. When marrying, young couples receive 60,000 Libyan dinars (about 50,000 US dollars) of financial assistance. Non-interest state loans, and as practice shows, undated. Due to government subsidies the price of cars is much lower than in Europe, and they are affordable for every family. Gasoline and bread cost a penny, no taxes for those who are engaged in agriculture. The Libyan people are quiet and peaceful, are not inclined to drink, and are very religious.


They maintained that the international community had been misinformed about the struggle against the regime. "Tell us," they said, "who would not like such a regime?"








0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 09:41 am
MSF confirms Syria 'chemical deaths'
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 11:14 am
@revelette,
The article makes no claim that the MSF has confirmed that the Assad govt. is responsible for the use of chemicals.

Do not make the mistake of assuming that these guys are not capable of using that sort of thing on their own people, simply because you or I would not be.

http://www.ex-yupress.com/dani/dani2.html
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 11:55 am
Obama, Russians Pressure Syria for U.N. Inspector Access

Quote:
A growing number of Western nations are pushing the Syrian government to help determine the source of a deadly chemical attack that by some accounts killed more than a thousand people earlier this week.

President Barack Obama and – in a shift – the Russian government have called on the Syrian regime to allow U.N. weapons inspectors already in the war-torn country to investigate the site of an alleged chemical attack in a suburb outside Damascus.



0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Aug, 2013 07:41 am
U.S. appears to weigh military response to alleged Syrian use of chemical weapons

Quote:
WASHINGTON — U.S. officials on Sunday called Syria’s decision to allow a U.N. team to investigate the site of a purported chemical attack “too late to be credible,” signaling that the Obama administration was leaning toward a military intervention in the two-year-old civil war.

Great Britain, meanwhile, issued a statement that left no doubt that it believed the Syrian government was responsible for the alleged chemical attack Aug. 21 that left more than 300 people dead.

“We are clear in the British Government that it was the Assad regime that carried out this…large- scale chemical attack, last Wednesday that has led to the…agonizing deaths of so many hundreds of people, including, tragically, so many children,” British Foreign Secretary William Hague said in a statement. “The eyewitness accounts, the fact this area was under bombardment by the regime forces at the time that the chemical attack took place. It all points in that direction to the responsibility of the regime.”



0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Aug, 2013 12:01 pm
Kerry is about to make some kind of announcement regarding Syria.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 06:09 am
Syria's Foreign Minister Says Country Would Defend Itself Using 'All Means Available' In Case Of U.S. Strike

0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2013 09:31 pm
So, What’s It Going To Be?

By Bashar Al-Assad

(writing in the Onion)

Well, here we are. It’s been two years of fighting, over 100,000 people are dead, there are no signs of this war ending, and a week ago I used chemical weapons on my own people. If you don’t do anything about it, thousands of Syrians are going to die. If you do something about it, thousands of Syrians are going to die. Morally speaking, you’re on the hook for those deaths no matter how you look at it.

So, it’s your move, America. What’s it going to be?

I’ve looked at your options, and I’m going to be honest here, I feel for you. Not exactly an embarrassment of riches you’ve got to choose from, strategy-wise. I mean, my God, there are just so many variables to consider, so many possible paths to choose, each fraught with incredible peril, and each leading back to the very real, very likely possibility that no matter what you do it’s going to backfire in a big, big way. It’s a good old-fashioned mess, is what this is! And now, you have to make some sort of decision that you can live with.

So, where do I begin? Well, this is just the tip of the iceberg, but let’s start with the fact that my alliance with Russia and China means that nothing you decide to do will have the official support of the UN Security Council. So, right off the bat, I’ve already eliminated the possibility of a legally sound united coalition like in Libya or the First Gulf War. Boom. Gone. Off the table.

Now, let’s say you’re okay with that, and you decide to go ahead with, oh, I don’t know, a bombing campaign. Now, personally, I can see how that might seem like an attractive option for you. No boots on the ground, it sends a clear message, you could cripple some of my government’s infrastructure, and it’s a quick, clean, easy way to punish me and make you look strong in the face of my unimaginable tyranny. But let’s get real here. Any bombing campaign capable of being truly devastating to my regime would also end up killing a ton of innocent civilians, as such things always do, which I imagine is the kind of outcome you people would feel very guilty about. You know, seeing as you are so up in arms to begin with about innocent Syrians dying. Plus, you’d stoke a lot of anti-American hatred and quite possibly create a whole new generation of Syrian-born jihadists ready to punish the United States for its reckless warmongering and yadda yadda yadda.

Okay, what else? Well, you could play small-ball and hope that limited airstrikes to a few of my key military installations will send me the message to refrain from using chemical weapons again, but, c’mon, check me out: I’m ruthless, I’m desperate, and I’m going to do everything I can to stay in power. I’d use chemical weapons again in a heartbeat. You know that. And I know you know that. Hell, I want to help you guys out here, but you gotta be realistic. Trust me, I am incapable of being taught a lesson at this point. Got it? I am too far gone. Way too far gone.

Oh, and I know some of you think a no-fly zone will do the trick, but we both know you can’t stomach the estimated $1 billion a month that would cost, so wave bye-bye to that one, too.

Moving on.

I suppose you could always, you know, not respond with military force at all. But how can you do that? I pumped sarin gas into the lungs of my own people, for God’s sake! You can’t just let me get away with that, can you? I mean, I guess you easily could, and spare yourself all of this headache, but then you would probably lose any of your remaining moral high ground on the world stage and make everything from the Geneva Conventions to America’s reputation as a beacon for freedom and democracy around the world look like a complete sham.

And, hey, as long as we’re just throwing stuff out there, let’s consider a ground invasion for a moment. Now, even if you could reasonably fund a ground invasion, which I’m pretty sure you can’t, what exactly would such an invasion accomplish in the long term? I suppose it’s possible that you could come in and sweep me out the door and that would be the end of it. It’s possible. You know, like, in the sense that seeing a majestic white Bengal tiger in the wild is possible. Or, more likely, you could find yourself entrenched in a full-blown civil war that drags on for 15 years and sets off further turmoil in the rest of the region, leading to even more dead bodies for your country and mine, and even more virulent hatred of America. In fact, boy, maybe this is the one option that should be totally off the table.

Oh, and speaking of me being toppled from power, let’s say, just for fun, that tomorrow I were to somehow be dethroned. Who’s in charge? Half of these rebel groups refuse to work with one another and it’s getting harder to tell which ones are actually just Islamic extremists looking to fill a potential power vacuum. We’ve got Christians, Sunnis, and Shias all poised to fight one another for control should I fall. You want to be the ones sorting through that mess when you’re trying to build a new government? I didn’t think so.

So, all in all, quite the pickle you’re in, isn’t it? I have to say, I do not envy you here. Really curious to see where you go with this one.

I’ll leave you with this: I am insane. Not insane enough to generate worldwide unanimity that I cannot remain in charge of my own country. That would make this a lot easier. No, unfortunately, I’m just sane and stable enough to remain in power and devise cunning military and political strategies while at the same time adhering to a standard of morality that only the most perverse and sociopathic among us would be capable of adopting. But nevertheless, I am insane, so do with that information what you will.

Long story short, I’m going to keep doing my best to hold on to my country no matter what the cost. If that means bombing entire towns, murdering small children, or shooting at UN weapons inspectors, so be it. I’m in this for the long haul. And you will do...whatever it is you’re going to do, which is totally up to you. Your call.

Anyway, let me know what you decide. I’ll be waiting.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 08:13 am
Pretty good summation for an onion article. Seems we are dammed either way. So are chemical weapons acceptable to the world now?
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 08:15 am
The Ghost of Iraq haunts Obama on Syria as British Parliament Defects
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 08:21 am
Intercepted phone call helped convince U.S. that Syrian regime was responsible for deadly chemical attack

0 Replies
 
 

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