17
   

Out of Afghanistan by tomorrow? How? What's your plan?

 
 
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 09:37 am
Okay.
So, you are in charge of the immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan.
What is your exit strategy?
I want your detailed plan with all the options.
Remember: The place is landlocked.
Are you going to fly everybody out leaving all that equipment behind?
Going to drive out ? Which way?
Right through the Taliban in Kandahar Province into Pakistan, then South to Karachi?
No....the fricking Kyber Pass????
East through Iran? HEH HEH HEH.
North gives you Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan, no sorry, that's Tajikistan isn't it? I always get those two mixed up.

To be fair: You have ten days to start and complete the withdrawal.
It must be orderly.
The USA must not lose a lot of face doing it.
There must be little or no loss of American or Allied Forces.
You have to estimate the date when all troops and equipment will reach either the USA or US Bases around the world.
You must estimate the cost of doing the operation. (C'mon, you can do it.)

I'm serious. This is a good war game to play. What's your plan?

Joe(ready, steady, go)Nation
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 09:47 am
@Joe Nation,
Don’t know, Joe, how did we exit Vietnam
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 09:48 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:
The USA must not lose a lot of face doing it.


since I don't care about this at all it makes it easy

Quote:
Are you going to fly everybody out leaving all that equipment behind?


yes


~~~~

pick up, pack up, get out
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 09:49 am
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Don’t know, Joe, how did we exit Vietnam


funny - I just edited a whole rant about the Vietnam exit from my response

and do I ever have a rant about the Vietnam exit
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 09:57 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

... What's your plan?

Joe(ready, steady, go)Nation


I would leave the plan to the people that are paid to make the plan.

Foofie (during assimilation, I've learned not to want to take over)
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 11:25 am
@ehBeth,
Okay, ehbeth:
Lose all face : Check.
Fly out.
How? How many planes would that take?
Where would they fly in from?
And go.
From what airfields would you land and launch?

Also Cost of goods left behind and Cost of Operation.

~~
I'm only asking this because I keep seeing flip comments of way-left blogs which appear to think it would be as simple as 1-2-3.

Joe(we are deeply imbedded)Nation
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 11:29 am
@Foofie,
I already told you, Foofie, you are in charge.

Joe(You must report your report)Nation
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 11:37 am
@dalehileman,
Viet Nam was a situation wherein it should have far easier to bug out. Plenty of US built roads and a huge air/seaport facility at Cam Ranh Bay and at Da Nang.

Even after two and half years of "Vietnamization" of the Viet Nam War, the South Viet Nam Army wasn't ready when the NVA made it's big push South and the USA was caught flat-footed with a whole lot of people to get out in a very short time.
Afghanistan is surrounded by countries who either hate our guts entirely or piecemeal and there isn't an easy way out by any means: air, land or water.

Joe(mostly because there is no way out by water.)Nation

Clint Eastwood says we should get out tomorrow. How Clint? How?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 11:41 am
@Joe Nation,
re costs: again - do not care at all - countries who chose to get involved in the wrong place at the wrong time will have to deal with their own expenses

the side of costs I do care about - I think all of the involved Western nations should get serious about reparations to Afghanis (my reading of Three Cups of Tea has made me pretty crazed on that topic)

I suspect the planes would be best to come in from Turkey - someone who knows more about airfield capacity would have to confirm that's possible. I think land and launch is the same question as where from.





March 29, 1973

when it came down to it - it took 2 months

I think a much better effort could be made now
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 12:18 pm
@ehBeth,
Going to overfly Iran?
(We'll just ask nicely.)
Or go North over the Caspian Sea through Armenia and Turkmenistan all the way to Kabul?

Golly, I do wish that Greg (author of Three Cups of Tea) wasn't a semi-fraud. I also wish he didn't remind me so much of Dr.Tom Dooley of The Night They Burned the Mountain fame.

He pretty much set us up to get involved and we are still paying for it.

Joe(I loved his books)Nation
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 12:28 pm
@Joe Nation,
The thing to do is do reading past 3 cups of tea. The U.S. promised a lot of things to Afghanis for their support and reneged and reneged and reneged. Then in came the Taliban with money.

Those two clumps of information are the important things about 3 cups of tea - and they're well-supported.

so ... pack up and get out ... bribe whoever you have to to do so ... it'll work



I think Turkmenistan will take the money. Armenia will for sure.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 02:25 pm
South through Pakistan. Despite some of the current tension, Pakistan is still an ally and would certainly allow US troops to move equipment through to the coast to be boarded on US naval ships.

Large shipments could also be accomplished through the air over Pakistan to the gulf and over to Kuwait and Qatar. C-5's and C-130's would carry the bulk of the troops and lighter vehicles.

Each convoy would be equally accompanied by troops and vehicles with air enforcement overhead for protection from whatever might decide to intervene, but seeing US troops leaving would probably be welcome by the militants.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 02:41 pm
@Joe Nation,
How are they getting things in now?

Why not just go back the way you came?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 02:44 pm
@Joe Nation,
Great thread idea, JoeN.

<I have not the slightest clue how to do all that>
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 02:47 pm
I am tending to agree with ehBeth on all this.

On Dooley, I do remember reading him, early on.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 03:34 pm
I can't even clean out the spare room. How do you expect me to get all that crap moved? Could you make it the day after tomorrow?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 03:41 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
I'm serious. This is a good war game to play. What's your plan?

I don't feel like playing.
This happened just a few days ago:

As it happened: Five Aussie soldiers killed in Afghanistan:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-30/five-aussie-soldiers-killed-in-afghanistan/4233558

... say nothing of all the other causalities, mainly Afghan civilians.
I just wish we had never been involved in any of it.
And I'm more concerned about reparations for damage we've done than how we'll leave.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 05:30 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:
Okay.
So, you are in charge of the immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan.
What is your exit strategy?
I want your detailed plan with all the options.
Remember: The place is landlocked.
Are you going to fly everybody out leaving all that equipment behind?
Going to drive out ? Which way?
Right through the Taliban in Kandahar Province into Pakistan, then South to Karachi?
No....the fricking Kyber Pass????
East through Iran? HEH HEH HEH.
North gives you Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan, no sorry, that's Tajikistan isn't it? I always get those two mixed up.


I'm not familiar with this alternate path through Kandahar into Pakistan you mention. Is there such a route?

In any case, we have two overland routes currently available, south through the Khyber Pass, and north through Russia (I forget which countries we pass through on our way to Russia).


We could add in a route that goes through Turkmenistan, and then go across the Caspian to Azerbaijan and Georgia. That would allow us to lay the diplomatic foundation for cross-Caspian oil and gas pipelines. There is a lot of oil and gas in Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan, and it would be nice to scoop it all away from Russia and China.



I recognize that you are critiquing demands that we actually pull out immediately, but those demands are silly, and the people who make them are going to be disappointed.

Note that while we are pulling out the regulars by 2014, we are going to pour in tens of thousands of Special Forces to replace them. We won't be pulling out completely until we've fully eradicated the enemy.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 05:37 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
the side of costs I do care about - I think all of the involved Western nations should get serious about reparations to Afghanis (my reading of Three Cups of Tea has made me pretty crazed on that topic)


We don't owe them any reparations. They can thank us for our mercy in not fully depopulating their country after 9/11.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 05:39 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:
... say nothing of all the other causalities, mainly Afghan civilians.
I just wish we had never been involved in any of it.


Afghanistan is the one who chose to start the war. The blame for all that has happened falls on their shoulders.



msolga wrote:
And I'm more concerned about reparations for damage we've done than how we'll leave.


All reparations are owed by Afghanistan to us, not the reverse.
 

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