17
   

Out of Afghanistan by tomorrow? How? What's your plan?

 
 
carolgreen616
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 08:56 pm
@oralloy,
how did we exit Vietnam
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 09:48 pm
@carolgreen616,
carolgreen616 wrote:
how did we exit Vietnam


We beat the Vietcong at counterinsurgency, forcing them to risk confronting us directly in the Tet Offensive. Then we eradicated them in that Tet Offensive.

After that, South Vietnam was able to survive on their own so long as we kept sending them aid, so we withdrew our forces.

Then the Democrats (who were then controlled by the radical left) betrayed the South Vietnamese people and cut off all of our aid to South Vietnam.

Nixon had just been lynched by those same extremist Democrats, and Ford was in too weak a position to thwart them, so South Vietnam was left defenseless against the Communists. It was a horrible tragedy, even more so because of all that we had just sacrificed for South Vietnam's freedom.

The Democrats tried the same sort of nonsense in the 1980s by cutting off aid to the Contras, but luckily Reagan was in a stronger position, and was able to thwart the Democrats and keep aid flowing to the Contras.



Today the far left no longer controls the Democratic Party, although they don't ever seem to realize it. No matter how much the radical left wishes we'd stop fighting the terrorists, as far as today's Democrats are concerned, the answer to terrorism is drone missile strikes.

Even the supposed "pull out from Afghanistan" is only a figment of the radical left's imagination. Obama is not pulling the US out of Afghanistan. He is only pulling out the regular forces. They are going to be replaced by 20,000 Special Forces.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 09:53 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
Okay.
So, you are in charge of the immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan.
What is your exit strategy?

Go to the chinese and ask them to take the hand off now, in return for the cost of keeping order they can have all of the mineral wealth, which they greatly need.

the chinese might just take the bait.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 10:07 pm
@izzythepush,
That came to my mind, too.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 10:54 pm
@oralloy,
so you want to exit through russia, while stealing away the oil and gas for ourselves...

and you wonder why the rest of the world views us as evil and ruthless?

Rolling Eyes
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 12:20 am
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:
while stealing away the oil and gas for ourselves...


What stealing??? Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan would be paid fair market value for their oil and gas. And Azerbaijan and Georgia would be paid fair market value for the use of their pipelines.

We should also get Georgia into NATO, so if Russia invades them again, we can launch the ICBMs. Russia needs to be made to understand that they will never be allowed to sever the Georgian pipeline links.



Rockhead wrote:
and you wonder why the rest of the world views us as evil and ruthless?

Rolling Eyes


No. I just propose drone airstrikes on those who oppose us.

Why they oppose us is none of my business.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 07:01 am
@ehBeth,
I think I would try and find a source independent of the author of "Three Cups" for whatever promises you are talking about. Post the links here, please, I have no doubt they exist.

Joe(the same promises were made to all the North American Indians, including the Canadian ones.)Nation
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 07:06 am
@oralloy,
Your post re: Viet Nam is one of the most distorted views of that era and events I have ever read.

Joe(Shockingly full of errors of all kinds)Nation
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 07:25 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

Your post re: Viet Nam is one of the most distorted views of that era and events I have ever read.

Joe(Shockingly full of errors of all kinds)Nation


That's about par for the course for Oralboy. Israel, gun control, your constitution, why should Vietnam be any different?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 07:26 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:
Your post re: Viet Nam is one of the most distorted views of that era and events I have ever read.

Joe(Shockingly full of errors of all kinds)Nation


Care to point out any of these distortions or errors?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 07:31 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
That's about par for the course for Oralboy. Israel, gun control, your constitution, why should Vietnam be any different?


You, of course, are so stupid that you wouldn't be able to point out any errors even if there were some to find.

But we'll see if anyone else can point out any errors in what I said.
0 Replies
 
Atom Blitzer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 10:54 am
@Joe Nation,
Why ask people's opinion when you can read how it is done. I think 10 days is too little time.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec11/iraq_12-14.html

Quote:


BARACK OBAMA: Welcome home.

JUDY WOODRUFF: It was a homecoming complete with the commander in chief for the latest detachments of troops arriving back at Fort Bragg, N.C.

President Obama praised the efforts of 1.5 million Americans who've served in Iraq since 2003.

BARACK OBAMA: We're building a new partnership between our nations. And we are ending a war not with a final battle, but with a final march toward home. This is an extraordinary achievement nearly nine years in the making. And, today, we remember everything that you did to make it possible.

JUDY WOODRUFF: That effort came at a high price in blood and treasure. The president said the United States spent more than $1 trillion on the war, although many war critics contend the real figure is far higher.

And there is the human cost of years of fighting, with nearly 4,500 American dead and, the president said, the toll on thousands of military families.

BARACK OBAMA: So there have been missed birthday parties and graduations. There are bills to pay and jobs that have to be juggled while picking up the kids. For every soldier that goes on patrol, there are the husbands and the wives, the mothers, the fathers, the sons, the daughters praying that they come back.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But, as the Iraq conflict finally comes to a close, the fighting goes on in Afghanistan. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta was there today, telling troops near the Pakistan border that they have made important gains.

SECRETARY OF DEFENSE LEON PANETTA: I really think that, for all the sacrifice that you're doing, the reality is that it's paying off and that we're moving in the right direction, and we're winning this very tough conflict here in Afghanistan.

JUDY WOODRUFF: U.S. forces have already begun withdrawing from Afghanistan, but there, too, the costs continue to climb, with more than 1,800 Americans killed since 2001.

As combat forces leave Iraq, one major challenge remains: what to do with all the equipment, military vehicles and bases left behind.

We look at what's involved with that lesser-known aspect of the war operations with retired Army Lt. Gen. Gus Pagonis. He was in charge of bringing home U.S. troops and gear after the first Gulf War. He's now vice chairman of GENCO ATC, a logistics and supply chain company with operations in the region. And Elizabeth Dwoskin, she co-wrote an article about all this for the new issue of Bloomberg Businessweek magazine.

And we thank you both for being with us.

Elizabeth Dwoskin, I will start with you.

How much material did the U.S. have in Iraq to be brought home?

ELIZABETH DWOSKIN, Bloomberg Businessweek: Well, millions and millions of pieces of equipment, probably over four or five million.

But when they started the drawdown and ended the combat mission, the major general in charge started with a list of two -- just over two million pieces of equipment that he was in charge of finding new homes for.


JUDY WOODRUFF: And at a huge value, cost.

ELIZABETH DWOSKIN: We don't know the total cost of the equipment, but we can imagine it is, from some of the breakdowns that we have seen.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Gen. Pagonis, just from your perspective of having been through something like this, give us a sense of a magnitude of an operation like this.

LT. GEN. GUS PAGONIS, (RET.) U.S. Army: Well, everything has to be brought back. And we have been there almost over nine years. All the equipment, that's easy to bring back, but you have to also bring back all the clothing. You don't want Army uniforms getting into the hands of terrorists or parties that could use it against us in Afghanistan or elsewhere.

But there will be computers, desks. It's just like -- it's been built up for nine years. And, plus, it has to be cleaned and processed. It will probably go through Kuwait, where a triage is done. Some of the stuff will be sent to Afghanistan for the war effort there. Other things will be washed and sent back to the United States. And other items will be thrown away as salvage because, remember, they have been used for nine years.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Elizabeth, in your reporting, most of it coming back to the United States?

ELIZABETH DWOSKIN: Yes, it looks like the bulk of the equipment is going to go back through the United States and go through the Army again, being used on bases.

As he said, it will cleaned there. It gets a huge scrub-down in Kuwait. It's being trucked there on thousands of truckloads. It gets a scrub-down. U.S. customs has to look through it. And then much of it comes to the states, but some will also go to Afghanistan as well and to other places, like Bahrain, where there are Marines, so lots of places around the world.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Gen. Pagonis, you touched on this, but why is it so important that this material be gotten out?

LT. GEN. GUS PAGONIS: Well, first of all, you don't want to leave it in the hands of any kind of force that can be used against you.

Uniforms, for example, don't seem like a big deal, but if the enemy were to get a hold of them, they could wear them and pose as American soldiers. In addition to that, all kind of other material, satellite equipment, computers, all needs to be brought back.


The budgets are very thin, as you know, and so this stuff will be refurbished and reused by the armed forces as much as possible. Some will be staged in Kuwait. We at GENCO ATC are actually running a facility in Kuwait where we're storing items that will be reissued.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Elizabeth -- and, again, on your reporting -- are there -- is this just a smooth operation? They just get a bunch of trucks and ships and they bring it back? How complicated is it, do they tell you?

ELIZABETH DWOSKIN: Through the interviews we did, it seems, as a layperson, enormously complicated. It seems like a feat of logistics.

Every night, Maj. Gen. Richardson, who we interviewed, who is the chief of logistics there in Iraq, he has a conference call with the generals that are still on the bases, the commanders that are still on the bases, and he kind of asks them to check in. OK, how many soldiers turned in what today? How many pieces do you have, how many latrines, how many ready-made spaghetti meals? They have everything down to the most minute level.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And what do they say about what -- we heard what Gen. Pagonis said about what shouldn't be left behind. But what do they say about what it's all right to leave behind there?

ELIZABETH DWOSKIN: Well, we're leaving over 500 military bases to the Iraqis, both to Iraqi security forces and also to the government.

So, in my story with Gopal Ratnam, we did -- we have an example of a base that's going to be used by the Iraqi Ministry of Youth and Sports. So you can imagine children, Iraqi children using that base for gym class, or the Ministry of Education could use those -- use the base for classrooms.

So those -- we will leave our physical footprint in Iraq for a long time to come.


JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Gen. Pagonis, we know some of the material that was mentioned is going to Afghanistan, but only a limited portion, it sounds like.

LT. GEN. GUS PAGONIS: Well, only those items you need. You don't want to keep building up the force and all the supplies, and when we leave Afghanistan, you have to bring that stuff back. So they will try to send what absolutely is needed now to save the shipment from the United States. It will just be shipped out of Kuwait.

But it's a very difficult process, as she mentioned. In the first Gulf War, they sent me 6,000 troops, and we were given two years to bring everything back. We got it done in nine months because the motto was, as soon as this stuff is out of here, you get to go home. And so it's a very difficult process. Everything has to be accounted for.

And, remember, the same people have not been there for nine years. So you have had a different crew, a different set of leaders, a different set of individuals working through the process. So, all that has to be coordinated. But there's great some young logisticians in the United States Army, Air Force and Navy to pull this off and do a great job.

JUDY WOODRUFF: General, what about the question of waste? Inevitably, there has to be some waste, things that were sent over that either weren't fully used or certainly a lot of things were destroyed.

LT. GEN. GUS PAGONIS: Well, most civilian corporations would write anything off after three of four years. In the armed forces, they are going to have to recoup it and go through the auditing.

And there will be some things that will be salvaged that just aren't worth it to bring back. But the big thing is to account for everything. And that's what they have been doing. By the way, this just didn't start yesterday. Once the president announced the withdrawal was going to take place, the logisticians started putting an operational plan together and they started executing as much as possible to be able to meet the deadline, because once the troops leave, your labor force is gone.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And you mentioned that in -- just a minute ago.

Elizabeth, you also write in this story about mayors, cities -- rather, cities, towns, local officials in the United States who are interested in getting their hands on some of this material at a reduced cost. How much of that is going on?

ELIZABETH DWOSKIN: Sure.

Well, as the general said, sometimes, it's too cumbersome to bring a lot of this equipment back to the U.S., so a lot of it is left on bases. But that has been frustrating for some American states and towns that have petitioned the Pentagon for this equipment.

So there's an association called the National Association of State Agencies for Surplus Properties. And they petitioned the Army for this equipment. So we have a town in Alabama that received band equipment which they will use in school districts that came from a base in Iraq. There's a county in Oklahoma which received a Caterpillar earth-mover, and they're going to use that to clear public parks.

So they have been receiving equipment all year. All told, it only comes out to about $10 million to $11 million worth of equipment, so about a fraction of what's going to the Iraqis and clearly what's staying.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Gen. Pagonis, as you -- as we wrap this up, as you look at what -- at how the operation seems to be going in Iraq and remembering what happened after the first Gulf War, how should Americans feel about this?

I mean, clearly most of the emotion, connection is with lives, the many, many men and women who went over there. Some didn't come back. What should Americans know about war fighting at a time like this?

LT. GEN. GUS PAGONIS: Well, first of all, the American public has supported the armed forces throughout this nine-year conflict, which is terrific.

It wasn't like the Vietnam conflict, where the American public were not behind the forces when they returned. These are great young men and women, drug-free, mobile, well-educated that need to be assimilated back into the work force.

And there's going to be various programs to do this. But many National Guard and reservists were called up, and people forget that. It was more than just the active force. It was a total integration of the three activities. So it will be a big thing. And I think it's great we're going to have them home by the end of -- many will get home before Christmas. Some will get right after Christmas.

But it's good to bring this part of our history to a closure, and now we need to concentrate on Afghanistan and get it wrapped up.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And I think it's good for all of us to be reminded of what a complicated operation this is right to the last day that the United States is there.

Gen. Gus Pagonis and Elizabeth Dwoskin, thank you both.

ELIZABETH DWOSKIN: Thank you.

LT. GEN. GUS PAGONIS: You're welcome.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 12:28 pm
@oralloy,
In a bit of a rush today, Oralloy, I'll try to tease out any truths in what you said tomorrow.
You might want to review the history before that, just to bring to mind who was directing the war effort after Jan 1969.

Joe(USAF Intelligence 1967-1971)Nation
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 05:42 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

I already told you, Foofie, you are in charge.

Joe(You must report your report)Nation


I decline the offer.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2012 06:33 pm
@Joe Nation,
I'm sorry...this is the best I can come up with.

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/50-Ways-to-Leave-Your-Lover-lyrics-Paul-Simon/EC7BDC207C7395D04825698A001079B4
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  4  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 09:26 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Afghanistan is the one who chose to start the war.


I thought Bin Laden was a Saudi ?

Quote:
All reparations are owed by Afghanistan to us, not the reverse.


They can pay us back from the poppy fields.

You must be one of those preemptive war kind of guys. You know, the aggressor.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 10:49 am
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Afghanistan is the one who chose to start the war.


I thought Bin Laden was a Saudi ?


Irrelevant.



IRFRANK wrote:
oralloy wrote:
All reparations are owed by Afghanistan to us, not the reverse.


They can pay us back from the poppy fields.


I prefer to be paid with blood, if you don't mind.



IRFRANK wrote:
You must be one of those preemptive war kind of guys. You know, the aggressor.


Your support for the 9/11 attackers is despicable.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 18 Sep, 2012 07:02 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:
In a bit of a rush today, Oralloy, I'll try to tease out any truths in what you said tomorrow.
You might want to review the history before that, just to bring to mind who was directing the war effort after Jan 1969.

Joe(USAF Intelligence 1967-1971)Nation


Well?
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Sep, 2012 08:41 am
@oralloy,
ogod, you'r right, I completely forgot about this.

Joe(soon)Nation
0 Replies
 
hamburgboy
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2013 09:05 am
Breaking News from the BBC
..................................................

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21566295

Quote:
The Afghan president has ordered US special forces to leave Wardak province within two weeks over allegations of disappearances and torture.

The measures were being taken due to the actions of Afghans considered to be part of US special forces, said a spokesman for Hamid Karzai.

The strategically significant, central province of Wardak has been the recent focus of counter-insurgency operations.

A US spokesman said it took all allegations of misconduct seriously.

But he said he could not comment specifically on this latest development.

In a hastily convened news conference, the presidential spokesman said US special forces would have to leave Wardak within the next two weeks.

It comes amid allegations that Afghan units - which the government says are working and paid for by the US teams - are linked to torture and disappearances.

A preliminary investigation also blamed them for beheading a university student in the province.

Wardak is seen as a gateway for the Taliban to target Kabul, says the BBC's Karen Allen in the city.


is this the beginning of the End ?

( i certainly hope so )
 

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