How old was the Virgin Mary when she gave birth to Jesus?

That's kinda unlikely.

I think the Jews not only traditionally had young marriages, but also tended toward arranged marriages. This pushes the age as youbg as possible while still being of age. Since Jewish men and women have bar (and bat) mitzvahs, around 14 or 15, I'd say that's her likely age.

Undoubtedly you would have believed Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church, and who, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, (Non-biblical) told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother’s vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it. (All non biblical).

Down to the 17th century, Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clement’s life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly ‘suspect.

"ERRONEOUS? HIGHLY SUSPECT?" they certainly got that right, but by the 15th century the false teaching of the so-called virgin birth had become firmly established in the minds of the gullible multitude.

Who cares? So what? What's the point? What does it prove? What does it disprove? What does it change?

Who cares? Not biblical ignoramuses who attack that which is beyond their capacity to comprehend, that's for sure.

The great grandfather of the biblical Jesus was Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was the high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC and is believed to have been murdered at the orders of Herod the Great. The sonless Yehoshua, had three daughters, Joanna, Elizabeth and Anna/Hanna.

Knowing that his Zadokian lineage would become extinct unless his ageing daughters were placed with future husbands according to the Torah, he married them off to chosen husbands.

The young Davidian prince Heli, [Alexander Helios III] the son, or adopted son of Mattathias ben Levi, was chosen by Yehoshua/Jesus III the high priest in Jerusalem, as the candidate to marry his daughter Hanna/Anna.

Revealing that the marriage of Mary’s parents was an arranged marriage.

Jehoshua III, the High Priest until 23 BC, is supposed to have died three years before the birth of his granddaughter ‘Mary.’ If it was his death that ended his period as high priest in Jerusalem in the year of 23 BC, this would mean that Mary was born in 20 BC and as Herod the Great died in 4 B. C. two years after the birth of Jesus in 6 B. C., This would make Mary about 14 when she gave birth to Jesus the biological son of her half-brother, Joseph the son of Heli/Alexander Helios. See Luke 3, 23.

IF God thought that was important enough, He would have clearly revealed it.
Why then are you concerned about this?

For those who seek to hear from a True Prophet of God, then go to DiscipleDave(dot)com.
But know this, This last days generation will NOT believe most of the videos that God has revealed to me, which most likely will be you too.

New International Version ZECHARIAH 13, 3; And if anyone still prophesies, their father and mother, to whom they were born, will say to them, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the LORD’s name.’ Then their own parents will stab the one who prophesies.

It's all speculation because there is no evidence and I can't find a reason for the answer to that question to matter.

And the reason you have found no evidence as to the age of Mary when she became pregnant to her half- brother Joseph ben Heli, is because you have not investigated the subject deeply enough.

Do you know who the mother of Mary is? DO you know who the father of Mary's mother is, and in what year he died in relation to the birth of his grand-daughter Mary?

I would be interested in finding out
1. Where you obtained all your information from
2. why it is matters, which you neglected to address.
I doubt you have any evidence to prove any of the claims you made, but I do not like to discount anything without evaluating the data.

Alexander Helios III, AKA HELI, an heir to the throne of David and the father of Joseph ben Heli See Luke 3: 23; was the Father of both Mary and her half-brother Joseph the biological parents of Jesus by different mothers.

In thirteen B.C. Alexander Helios was murdered at the command of Herod the Great as a threat to his throne. The zealots, whose aim it was to free Israel from the cruel yoke of Roman rule, then took the seven year old Mary up to northern Galilee and brought her up under their care in the little village of Nazareth while her mother Hanna remained in Jerusalem where she never left the temple day and night worshipping and fasting and praying.

When the messenger of God told the young 13-14-years-old Mary, while in Nazareth, that she was to become pregnant and bear a son who God would make king as his ancestor King David was and that her aunty Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant, she packed her bag and with her Zealot chaperon travelled down south to the land of Benjamin, to the house of her aged aunty where many family members and friends had gathered to rejoice with Elizabeth. LUKE 1; 41; When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby moved within her. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and said in a loud voice, “You are the most blessed of all women, and blessed is the child you will bear! Why should this great thing happen to me, that my Lord's [FUTURE KINGS] mother comes to visit me? For as soon as I heard your greeting, the baby within me jumped with gladness. How happy you are to believe that the Lord's message to you will come true!”

How did Elizabeth know what the messenger of God had said to Mary while she was still up north in Nazareth, and was her half-brother, young Joseph the son of HELI, there with the visitors in the house, was Elizabeth among the conspirators to put a descendant of king David on the throne and free themselves from the yoke of Roman rule?

Three months later, the unmarried pregnant Mary returned to Nazareth where she was accepted by Joseph ben Jacob a descendant of the cursed genetic line of Jehoiachin to be his wife, this would have been a marriage of convenience as Herod’s advisors would never see a descendant of Jehoiachin as a threat to Herod’ s throne.

But because Joseph the son of Alexander Helios and any male offspring of his, would have been seen as a threat to the throne of Herod the Great as was his father, the biological father of Jesus had to remain hidden, and for the safety of the child, the pregnant Mary, was married off to Joseph the son of Jacob, a descendant of the cursed genetic line of King Jehoiachin.

Herod’s chief advisers, would not have seen Jesus, who they believed was the son of Joseph ben Jacob as a threat to the throne of Herod, because Mary, unbeknown to the Jewish authorities was already pregnant to her half-brother “Joseph the son of Alexander Helios,” and was taken to wife by Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah. This Joseph ben Jacob, who married the already pregnant Mary and who was only the foster-father of Jesus, was a descendant of Solomon through the cursed line of Jehoiachin, of whom we read in Jeremiah 22: 30; “This man is condemned to lose his children, to be a man who will never succeed. He will have no descendants who will rule in Judah as David’s successor. I, the Lord, have spoken.” This rules out the hope of any son of Joseph ben Jacob ever sitting on the throne of David, whereas Jesus the son of Joseph ben Heli=Alexander Helios was a legitimate successor to that throne.

According to Torah law, Nathan the son of Bathsheba and Uriah the Hittite and adopted son of King David, and Nathan’s descendants, were legitimate heirs of King David, but not in the ancestral line of the promised Messiah, who was to be born of the seed of Solomon, until Naria the descendant of Nathan coupled with Tamar the descendant of Solomon, to produce Salathiel the ancestor of Jesus, who has been made High Priest (From the tribe of Levi=Nathan) and King (From the tribe of Judah=Solomon) in the order of Melchizedek.

David Hughes the noted Genealogist of the Ancient World Lineages, states that King Jeconiah’s only son, with Queen Tamar, ‘Prince Zedekiah,’ died prematurely in childhood, and in 586 BCE King Zedekiah, the last king of Israel, whose original name Mattaniah, was the son of Josiah and the uncle of Jehoiachin. King Zedekiah/Mattaniah, was taken prisoner and his sons were executed in front of him, after which, his eyes were gouged out, and there in Babylon, he remained blinded in exile for the rest of his life and it appeared that the entire royal lineage of King David through God’s chosen son, Solomon, had been exterminated.

With all the known direct lineages of male heirs to the lineage of King Solomon the son of King David and Bathsheba now extinct, Queen Tamar II became the dynastic heiress preserving not only the Lineage of King Solomon, but also became the inter-dynastic link, or the vital crossover heiress merging the non-royal Nathan lineage with the royal lineages of King Solomon. With the addition of Tamar representing the mainline descendants of King David, we now can understand the linkage between the two prime royal and non-royal lineages to the ancestry of the Jewish Messiah Yehoshua ben Yosef (Jesus son of Joseph the son of Alexander Helios a descendant of Nathan). Jesus carried in his genes the potent fusion of Davidian and Zadokian bloodlines.

He carried the potent bloodline of the royal mantle as a Priest-King of Israel and the messianic mantle as the Maschiach Yisra’el (Messiah of Israel) of the House of David. Hebrew 5: 10; “And God declared him (Jesus) to be high priest according to the priestly order of Melchizedek.” Melchizedek held the titles of both King and high priest. Hebrew 5: 5; “In the same way, Christ did not take upon himself the honor of being high priest. Instead, God said to him, ‘You are my Son; TODAY I have become your Father.’”

@The anointed, you get all that from a few verses in Luke! Who wrote Luke? The author admitted he did not know Jesus and never mentioned any resources for any of the documentation in that book. I didn't used that book in my fraud investigation about Jesus because it was not reliable testimony. That being said, I have found that the author of Luke liberally copied material from James [Mark] and stole material (Luke 24:13-49) from Nicodemus [Matthew]. It also has proven fabricated material in it to support the Catholic control of the New Covenant of Jesus such as Luke 24:34 embedded in the stolen account of the two men.

[quote] The anointed, you get all that from a few verses in Luke! [/quote]

No mate, I get that from studying the history of those days and correlate it with what the scriptures say.

[quote] Who wrote Luke? [/quote]

Luke the physician, a close companion of Saul who was later named Paul and neither one had ever met Jesus while he lived in the flesh.

[quote] I didn't used that book in my fraud investigation about Jesus because it was not reliable testimony. That being said, I have found that the author of Luke liberally copied material from James [Mark] and stole material (Luke 24:13-49) from Nicodemus [Matthew]. [/quote]

Concerning your supposed great fraud investigation; the gospel of Mark was not written by James the elder son of Zebedee and the gospel written by Matthew was not written by Nicodemus. Matthew was a tax collector also known as Levi.

Peter and Andrew, the fishermen from Bethsaida on the eastern side of the Jordan in the territory of Herod Philip, later moved their families to Capernaum, the reason for their move is believed to have been that they needed their fish processed (Air dried or salted) and the principle (If not the only) fish factory on the Sea of Galilee was at Magdala in the same territory as Capernaum in Galilee.

It was in the town of Capernaum that Jesus met Levi [AKA Matthew] a tax collector who was sitting in his office in the customs house (Mark 2:14. and Matthew 9;9.) where fishermen from Bethsaida had to pay a tax in order to bring their catch across the border, and by moving to the territory of Herod Antipas, Peter and his brother were able to avoid this tax.

Jesus chose his first four disciples from this area, who were all fishermen, Peter and Andrew, plus his nephews, James and John, the sons of his sister Salome the wife of Zebedee.

There is zero evidence that Luke, a close companion of Saul, wrote the Gospel of Luke. Nearest I could tell, Silas, also a companion of Paul's, wrote that book, but it is irrelevant because he wasn't an eyewitness of Jesus either. Likewise, there is no evidence to support John Mark as the author of the Gospel of Mark. Since you are a student of history, feel free to provide me the evidence that backs up your claim, because I have been able to find nothing and the documentation supports my conclusions.

Matthew was a disciple created by the Catholic church to be present so that he could witness their edits in the Gospel of Matthew. Nicodemus copied from James because he wasn't present to witness many of Jesus miracle's. The tax collector story in Matthew is also a copy of the account recorded in Mark by James. The account in Mark is the original because it is the one with the eyewitness details. John provides the most thorough accounting of the disciples and never mentions the name Matthew or Levi. The tax collector was not one of the twelve disciples.

[quote] There is zero evidence that Luke, a close companion of Saul, wrote the Gospel of Luke. [/quote]

There is as much evidence for Luke being the author of the Gospel by his name, as there is for Matthew, Mark and John being the authors of the other three Gospels.

[quote] Likewise, there is no evidence to support John Mark as the author of the Gospel of Mark. [/quote]

And why would there be? As the young disciple John, who Jesus charged with the care of his mother upon his death, was given the surname “Mark” which surnamed "MARK," according to Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible, means, "Hammer, or the Hammerer," and John surnamed "Mark," is associated with young John, who Jesus had surnamed "Son of thunder." [Thor].
John who was surnamed ‘MARK’ was the author of the Gospel of John and not the Gospel of Mark, who is believed to be the son of Peter. And the grave of John surnamed Mark and the grave of his grand-mother Mary the mother of Jesus, can both be visited today in the town of Ephesus.

[quote] Since you are a student of history, feel free to provide me the evidence that backs up your claim, because I have been able to find nothing and the documentation supports my conclusions.
The tax collector was not one of the twelve disciples. [/quote]

Like your erroneous conclusion where you said, “The tax collector was not one of the twelve disciples.”

MATTHEW 10: I-4; Jesus called his twelve disciples together and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and every sickness. These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James and his brother John, the sons of Zebedee; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew, the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Patriot, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus.

Now run away son and come back after you have studied the bible.

In other words you have no evidence for Matthew, Mark and Luke as authors, just as I have already determined--but then you are certain that I am wrong. It is you who needs to study the Bible, because if you had, you would realize that Matthew 10:1-4 is a copy of Mark 3:16-19 and neither of these versions of the twelve match John's description of the twelve. It doesn't even strike you as 'weird' that the list has evidence of copying then the version in Matthew tells that Matthew is a tax collector--and we know nothing else about a disciples named Matthew? What did Matthew observe Jesus do? Where was Matthew hiding? Why doesn't John mention Matthew OR Levi even once? Why are all the eyewitness details presented in Mark 2:13-18 when the account is supposedly Matthew, the author of the Gospel of Matthew. Now go away novice and do some homework.

Why doesn't Matthew, Mark or Luke mention the fact that Jesus called Lazarus to come out of the tomb as revealed in the Gospel of John?

Why doesn't Matthew, Mark and John, mention the story of the boy Jesus in the temple astonishing the Jewish teachers with his knowledge of the scriptures as revealed by Luke?

Why doesn't Mark, Luke or John, mention the wise men who came to Jerusalem almost two years after the birth of Jesus in search of the Jews promised Messiah, as revealed by Matthew?

It should be stated here that it was not uncommon for male Jews in northern Galilee to carry three names, one in Hebrew, one in Greek and one in Aramaic, the three major languages in that area, the Hebrew father of Jesus, was Joseph the son of Alexander Helios III.

Alexander Helios was a father of renowned, an heir to the throne of David, who Herod the Great had killed as a threat to his throne, his Hebrew son Joseph the biological father of Jesus was given the Greek name ‘Cleophas’ the masculine form of the feminine Cleopatra’, which means, “Of a renowned father” and also the Aramaic name, ‘Alphaeus’ which also means “Of a renowned father.”

Cleophas=Alphaeus=Joseph the father of Jesus, is also the father of James the younger of Mary’s three biological sons. And from Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, in the SUBJECT GUIDE we read: “Cleophas …… Of a renowned father, husband of Mary John 19: 25, called Alphaeus Matthew 10: 3.”

As said previously, it was not uncommon for men in Galilee in those days to carry three names, one Hebrew, one Greek and one Aramaic. Thomas=Tau’ma, the Aramaic for twin, is also called Didymus, which is the Greek for twin, he is Thomas/twin, Didymus/twin, Jude, the cousin and adopted brother of Jesus the son of the carpenter.

Excerpts from “The Acts of Thomas-Wikipedia.” Acts of Thomas is a series of episodic Acts (Latin passio) that occurred during the evangelistic mission of Judas Thomas ("Judas the Twin") to India. It ends with his martyrdom: he dies pierced with spears, having earned the ire of the monarch Misdaeus (Vasudeva I) because of his conversion of Misdaeus' wives and a relative, Charisius. He was imprisoned while converting Indian followers won through the performing of miracles.

Thomas is often referred to by his name Judas (his full name is Thomas Judas Didymus), since both Thomas and Didymus just mean twin, and several scholars believe that twin is just a description and not intended as a name. The manuscripts end "The acts of Judas Thomas the apostle are completed, which he did in India, fulfilling the commandment of him that sent him. Unto whom be glory, world without end. Amen.".

A local tradition of eastern Syria identifies the Apostle Jude with Jude Thomas who was called ‘The Twin’ also known as Thomas (Aramaic), Didymus (Greek), and Jude (Hebrew.) Knowing that in ART, Thomas Didymus Jude, the adopted son of Alphaeus/Cleophas/Joseph, is depicted with a, carpenter’s rule and square. In "The Acts of Thomas, sometimes called by its full name, "The Acts of Judas Thomas," 2nd-3rd century CE, "The Apostles cast lots as to where they should go, and to Thomas, brother to Jesus fell India.

Thomas was taken to King Goddophares the ruler of Indo-Pathian Kingdom as an architect and carpenter by Habban.” Jude, the brother of the Lord according to the flesh, both having the same father, Joseph-Cleophas-Alphaeus, who was the son of Alexander Helios/Heli, but born of different wombs, was called the apostle of many names, as he was also called Thaddaeus and Lebbeaus, the Greek and Aramaic words for ‘courageous.’ So Jude the brother of the Lord is the courageous apostle called ‘The Twin,’ and he should not be confused with the apostle whose actual name was ‘Thomas.’

Owing to your limited knowledge of scripture, are you sure you wish to continue with this debate?

1. Why doesn't Matthew, Mark or Luke mention the fact that Jesus called Lazarus to come out of the tomb as revealed in the Gospel of John?

John was the only disciple with Jesus. James nor Nicodemus went. The proof that James who wrote Mark didn't go is obtained from the anointing of the woman event.

2. Why doesn't Matthew, Mark and John, mention the story of the boy Jesus in the temple astonishing the Jewish teachers with his knowledge of the scriptures as revealed by Luke?

This account is in Luke which is the only Gospel that isn't eyewitness testimony. The account cannot be proven to be true unless validated through other Gospel information which it isn't.

3. Why doesn't Mark, Luke or John, mention the wise men who came to Jerusalem almost two years after the birth of Jesus in search of the Jews promised Messiah, as revealed by Matthew?

Nicodemus wrote Matthew and he was a religious leader who had access to this information.

4. Your additions to the Gospel information are merely an attempt by you to add to the word of God and this is not allowable. Wikipedia is not a reliable resource and the Gospels--the word of God, are meant to be read as is.

So, let's see what Luke recorded that can be validated? Luke 3; 35-36; reveals that Shelah is the son of Cainan/Kainan who is the son of Arpachshad etc. Whereas according to the Roman canon, Genesis 11: 12; When Arpachshad was 35 years old he had a son named Shelah. And in first Chronicles 1: 18; it is written, "Arpachshad is the father of Shelah. These are the only places in the Roman canon that the father of Shelah is mentioned.

So, whose statement has been validated by the Lord, Luke's, statement that Cainan/Kainan is the father of Shelah or that which is revealed in the Roman Canon?

The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Hebrew bible some 200 years before Jesus, and the Samaritan bible both have in Genesis 11 and 1 Chronicles 1, that Arpachshad is the father of Cainan who is the father of Shelah.

And in Jubilees [Chapter 8]
1 In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, [1373 A.M.] in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu’eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she 2 bare him a son in the third year in this week, [1375 A.M.] and he called his name Kainam.

And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for 3 himself a city. And he found a writing which former (generations) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and 4 stars in all the signs of heaven.

And he wrote it down and said nothing regarding it; for he was 5 afraid to speak to Noah about it lest he should be angry with him on account of it. And in the thirtieth jubilee, [1429 A.M.] in the second week, in the first year thereof, he took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year [1432 A.M.] he begat a son, and 6 called his name Shelah; for he said: ’Truly I have been sent.’

All scripture are good for learning said Paul, but there are still those today who fear to step outsides the canon of the Roman church.

So somehow you believe that a name mentioned in Luke connects that Gospel to a few additional books? Then, you throw a few words of Paul in and claim that the Gospel of Luke is the word of God? Nice try.

To be an eyewitness of Jesus, the author of Luke had to spend time with Jesus or provide the names of those of whose testimony he wrote down. Explain how in your mind that connection you wrote about somehow validates Luke as eyewitness testimony about Jesus. Who was the author of Luke and what was that author's connection to Jesus?