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The Illuminati - IS IT REAL??

 
 
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 12:10 am
is the illuminati organization real? Do people really sell their soul to the devil or "SACRIFICE" things for power, money, and/or fame? What about the Skulls & Bones organization, is that real? Is the government in this too? did this start way back when we 1st had presidents? Im really interested in this. Someone please explain (& by the way, no off topic discussion Please) THANK YOU =)
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 01:36 am
Just a note about reality--you'll never stop people from going off topic.

There was an organizaton called the Illuminati which was founded late in the 18th century in Bavaria. Bavaria is Catholic, and eventually the Pope condemned the organization. It never weilded anything like real power, and the Pope's condemnation lead to its marginalization. I believe i am correct in stating that it then died out. One member did make it to the United States late in the 18th century, and preachers in New England preached against it. The organization was never powerful in the United States, either. However, the preachers generated a wild hysteria against an organization which was never powerful in the first place, so conspiracy theories about the Illuminati crop up just about every generation. There is no evidence that the Illuminati ever weilded any power anywhere in the United States. In fact, relying on solid evidence, there is no reason to believe that it even exists. It's been "dead" for two hundred years. Some modern organizations use the name Illuminati. There is no evidence that they are any more than silly clubs with delusions of grandeur. To borrow a phrase, it is the rage of dreaming sheep.

I have no doubt that people will show up here to allege a vast, international conspiracy weilding incredible power to attain nefarious ends. I don't believe if for a moment, and my response would be: "Oh yeah? Prove it."

Skull and Bones is a secret society at Yale University. (Not much of a secret if so many people know about it.) Several influential people have been members of Skull and Bones. Howerver, there is no good reason to assume that they became influential because they were members of the society. Graduating from Yale University is reason enough to explain how some people became influential. Once again, i have no doubt that any number of people will show up here alleging nefarious conspiracies around former members of Skull and Bones. To reapeat myself: i don't believe if for a moment, and my response would be: "Oh yeah? Prove it."
BrianaMonique
 
  2  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 04:39 am
@BrianaMonique,
I forgot to add I want to know more into the masons, Freemasons & the eastern stars too. My greatgrandma is an eastern star and I asked her about it, she yelled and told me to never bring it up again.. (obviously hiding something.. Right?) also, my granddad (her husband) was a mason, he had one of those G rings.. So yeah, tell me about those too, please. Thank You,! Oh yeah & the ONE WORLD ORDER (what's is that about?) Thanks again=)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 05:15 am
Your grandma sounds mean. Just becaue people make a big mumbo-jumbo out of a secret society doesn't mean that there is anything worth hiding. That's the kind of thinking that leads people to make much ado about nothing when i comes to silliness like Skull and Bones.

After the authority of the Roman Empire collapsed in western Europe in the 5th and 6th centuries, so-called barbarian tribes moved in and took over. The Franks (for whom France is named), the Lombards, the Vandals--tribes like those took over, and, effectively, they enslaved the people who had been living there before they arrived. People who weren't Franks or Lombards or Vandals became serfs, bound to tha land. Anyone who was not bound to the land in that way was a masterless man, and for practical purposes and outlaw.

But life is never that simple, even for heavily armed Germans who have just taken over. The new aristocracy, the new masters, soon wanted luxury goods as much as the Romans had, so that meant that there had to be merchants. You can't send a serf off to Venice to get some silk and spices for you, and expect him to return. You also need people with certain skills--carpenters, blacksmiths, coopers (makes barrels and buckets), wainwrights (makes big wagons), cartwrights. You could try to turn your serfs into skilled workers, but they're going to want more out of you, or else they're not going to do good work. You certainly want somebody who knows what he's doing, and will do it well to make the roof over your head. You want a blacksmith who konws what he's doing and is motivated to do it well--you don't want your sword to break when you're fighting one of those nasty pagan Saxons across the river.

So, there were many classes of people who were not aristocrats, who were not warriors, but who were essential because of their skills. Foremost among these skilled craftsmen in the middle ages were the masons. It took many years to acquire the skills to be a competent mason, and although a mason might spend his whole life working on a cathedral, there were many jobs a mason could do that would be completed in a season (a stone house), or a year (a stone keep, the important part of a castle--for a long time castles only had wooden walls), or a few years, such as a big church or a castle with stone walls. This was another profession, another skill, that you could not expect from your serfs, and for the masons to pursue their trade, they had to be able to move about freely. So they called themselves free masons--men who were free to move around to look for work.

Rich and powerful merchants wanted sone walls built around their cities, and lovely stone churches in their cities, and stone houses. Rich and powerful aristocrats wasnted houses built out of stone, and castles built of stone. The church, which was very powerful and rich, and international, began building huge churches--cathedrals. So they all needed masons, and needed masons who would do good work. That meant that the rich and powerful had to put up with a class of skilled craftsmen who were both free and migratory.

To protect their own interests, masons formed lodges. The lodge set the wages for unskilled labor, the terms for apprentices, the wages and privileges for journeymen. (When an apprentice was accepted by the lodge as having completed his training, although he might stay where he was and work, it was more likely that he would travel elsewhere to look for work. That way, he wasn't competing with the lodge, and he could improve his skills and learn new ones from new masters. Because apprentices usually travelled on after completing their apprenticeship, they were known as journeymen.)

The lodge also looked after the welfare of their members, and governed their members. They were very jealous of their rights, so if the Count or the Bishop complained about one of the members of the lodge, the lodge would investigate, and punish him if they saw fit--they didn't want the local authority to interfere in lodge business. Eventually, free masons developed elaborate rules and elaborate rituals, and they became a welfare society for the members of their lodges and the families.

By the end of the middle ages, although there was still plenty of work for stone masons, they were no longer the only and most powerful trade organization. Using the lodges of the masons as models, carpetnters, blacksmiths, weavers--people from any trade had formed their own benevolent societies, called guilds, which set the rules, set the wages, looked after the members and their famileis, and tried to put any competition out of business. In the middle of the 14th century, there was a terrible plague in Europe, and nearly one third of the population died off. Labor became very valuable. Those plagues continued in Europe for the next three hundred years, so labor remained valuable. Governments tried to pass laws to keep serfs on the land, but the men who wanted to keep their serfs on the land still didn't have enough labor, so they would hire "masterless men," and the whole system broke down.

So with skilled laborers making a good living, and with the end of the lodges and the guilds (kings and princes learned that the best way to keep costs down was to promote competition), there was no longer a much reason for the lodges of the masons. The masonic lodges becasme fraternal and benevolent organizations, like the Shriners or the Elks, But the Masons were the first and the greatest of the benevolent organizations. Many of the "founding fathers" of the United states were Masons, and masonic rituals and symbols were incorporated into the early republic (such as the symbols on the back of the dollar bill).

Just as men and women like to form benevolent organizations and clubs, so other people want to scowl and allege that such organizations are sinister, perhaps evil. Just as was the case with the Illuminati and Skull and Bones, people have created elaborate myths of the sinister nature of the masons. Conservative christians really seem to go in for this. My response to them is (predictably): "Oh yeah? Prove it."
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 06:52 am
@Setanta,
Yeah, right, that's what they want you to believe. And, think about it, who would want anyone to prove such an allegation? Why, Illuminati and Freemasons of course! QED.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:34 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Just a note about reality--you'll never stop people from going off topic.

Hey Set? Have you ever tried black bean ice cream or black sesame ice cream? Just curious.... Razz
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 11:21 am
@tsarstepan,
I'm a traditionalist. I like ice cream which is sweet, and has fruit or chocoalate as it's theme. I really, really, really despise young chefs who think seem to think it makes them look clever and innovative to make disgusting combinations of flavors and then foist them off on a credulous public eager to show their sophistication by eating any damn crap that's set in front of them at way too high a price.

Not that i care much about it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 11:26 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
Yeah, right, that's what they want you to believe. And, think about it, who would want anyone to prove such an allegation? Why, Illuminati and Freemasons of course! QED.


I find most conspiracy theories hilarious because they allege deeply laid plots of which everyone is ignorant. Oh yeah? So, how did you find out, Bubba?
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 11:57 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I find most conspiracy theories hilarious because they allege deeply laid plots of which everyone is ignorant. Oh yeah? So, how did you find out, Bubba?

Ha! Good try, J. Edgar! (Obviously I won't say. I have to protect my source from their secret agents. Just look what they're doing to Julian Assange right now.)
lil host
 
  0  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 11:57 am
@Setanta,
hey if i can speak the Illuminati is a group that goes why back in centuries ago illiminati is trying to brainwash the ppl from the singers side as from the governers and all that they are tryin to cause hate of ppl by makin wars and there pretty good at it illuminati has a title as the new world its just a new begging the begging of the ending the Illuminati are just makin everything ready for the comin of there king the OMEN
Setanta
 
  3  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 12:05 pm
@lil host,
Can i have some of what you're smokin'?
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 12:06 pm
@Thomas,
Uhm . . . yeah . . . Ecuador is offering him assylum. Must be the Freemasons . . .
0 Replies
 
George
 
  2  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 01:55 pm
@lil host,
That doesn't even rhyme.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 02:31 pm
@Setanta,
keen post.
0 Replies
 
lil host
 
  0  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 05:07 pm
@George,
no see i am a plotical rapper this wasnt a rap it was just poolitics
lil host
 
  0  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 05:08 pm
@Setanta,
yea u can have some knowledge and btw i am MUSLIM i DONT SMOKE ****
lil host
 
  0  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 05:11 pm
@Setanta,
btw man just wake up see the world around u see this ur life open ur eys and what i say i am sure of one day u well find ur self lost yea i was lost once and i woke up i aint ganna be brainwashed again the Illuminati had a title of new world wats the new world think of it u will find the answer
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 05:29 pm
@lil host,
lil host wrote:
no see i am a plotical rapper this wasnt a rap it was just poolitics
Well, that clears it up.
lil host
 
  1  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 06:23 pm
@George,
man clears wat up man
thack45
 
  2  
Thu 16 Aug, 2012 08:58 pm
you'll have to forgive George. he isn't very plotical
0 Replies
 
 

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