Honor? What is it?

Hmmm - it is a lot of things, I guess.

One of them, I think, is behaving as ethically when unseen as one does in public.

(That was by way of a bookmark - I'll be back)

Letty, I think Deb said it best, as least for the thought that first comes to mind regarding honor. In a way, it is related to acts of kindness or helpfulness that will never go recognized and for which there is no expectation of a thank you or of compensation of any sort.

Deb and Di. It used to be that a person's handshake was all that was needed to solidify a bond. I don't necessarily live in that myth, but I would love to do so.

It has been said that the Civil War was the last war fought among gentlemen. I wonder about the carnage; the brother against brother, and then the moratorium while the wounded were given assistance and help.

There is, of course, honor among thieves. Regardless, I still feel that if we betray one person, we have betrayed a nation.

Richard Lovelace knew, somehow, that he could not love his mistress if he betrayed his cause. Do we still have a cause? I think so, and that is to not sacrifice one love for another, be it ever so tempting.

Goodnight, dear aussie and deep Denver. from your friend in Florida

truth
I guess it has to do with social credit and reputation. To be dishonored is to be discredited as a member of a moral community.

Oh - interesting - I see it as being discredited in my own eyes...

Good morning all.

I realize that honor is a value loaded word, but, like Deb, I really believe that it is an individual thing, and not one imposed upon us by society, etc.

I had seen on Yahoo, that the Supreme Court was going to open up the Roe vs Wade case, and I thought about the fact that judges are referred to as honorable and that led me to wonder about each of us.

Back later when I've had my coffee.

There is a cultural difference re that one, of course, in some cultures - especially for women.

Eg, in some cultures - though gradually less so in ours, but not as unknown and unfamiliar a thought as we would like to think - a woman loses her honor if she is raped - and, since she holds the honor of the family, some cultures go so far as to want to kill her - eg "honor killings" in some Muslim countries. She can also lose her honour for choosing a partner not liked by relatives, or fornication etc,

I, however, think of it very much in terms of behaving according to my ethics and ideals - including such things as keeping my word, behaving honestly and respectfully towards others, keeping confidences, not betraying privacies, (such as those disclosed in intimacies like sex), trying to have courage and not to let abuses of people and position go unchallenged, not being petty or mean minded, being compassionate and so on.

'Twould be a fine thing if I could keep to these!!!!!

I think, at least in upper crust circles, that it has in the past had a more externalised meaning - a bit like "face" in Chinese - and Japanese? - culture....

It is also talked about in the military - I am not entirely sure what it means there...

Mornin' Ms. Letty!

I think it's a bit of both. Society sets the conditions by which the individual's honor is judged no?

Yes. There just has to be a tie between honor and duty.

Well, Deb. In the US Marines, honor is a big, big thing. It's just such a paradox in that regardless of how many people get hurt, that honor code must stay in tact. Many whistle blowers have an individual code of honor to let the public know when things are kept hidden. I have a neighbor who did that very thing, but elected to be "bought off", soooooo, I was really examining myself. As I have said before, most of us are an "unknown quantity" just as Henry Fleming in The Red Badge of Courage.

When Lovelace expressed this idea, he saw it as a test of love in that we cannot really love anyone unless we serve a higher cause first.

In the ten commandments, the admonition to "honor" thy father and thy mother is also illusive, because we must decide for ourselves what that means.

The Marine Corps honor bit has been distorted over the years to become an issue of internal protection. That's no longer honor - it's a sheild for corruption in some cases.

"Honor" is in doing your duty and meeting your social obligations within the rules society has set. It's about acting in ways that are within the rules even if it is to one's own detriment.

Exactly, fishin'. At one time, I'm sure it was functional, especially during war. Only one point that I have lately considered, and that is the rules of any given society.

Sometime back, I recall having read the history of the CashandCarry grocery business. Folks balked at the idea of the man who was attempting to institute that particular way of buying. True to his honor, he finally told one person:

No, I won't charge your purchases, but I'll give the groceries to you.

Well, we all know how that's evolved.

truth
If we use the term "esteem" in our analysis of honor, we might move more easily. Dlowan says that it's more, or as much, a matter of SELF esteem as it is of SOCIAL esteem. The "Right Honorable" office holder is one who is, officially at least, honored by society because of his or her incumbancy. Yet to be dishonored is both to be depreciated by society and by oneself--unless one is "shameless". I tend to think of self-esteem in terms of GUILT and social-esteem in terms of SHAME. In guilt I think to myself "What have I DONE" (emphasis is on the deed). In shame I think "What have I done" (the emphasis is on the self and its loss of public esteem--and one needs to avoid the eyes of others). In guilt one does not refer to the eyes of others, only to one's own internalized judge--one's conscience or introjected parent figures. Anthropologists used to distinguish between "shame cultures" and "guilt cultures". In the former people were said to be socially controlled mainly by the eyes of others; in the latter they were said to be controlled by their internalized monitors. Japan might the classic example of the former and some catholic or Jewish communities of the latter. But it is now believed that while some cultures may elaborate shame more than guilt or vice versa, all societies control members by means of both. Everyone needs to feel worthy of love (free of guilt) and to feel that they are publically honored (free of shame).

Hey, Rog. Somehow I missed your post. Yes, a tie between honor and duty is evident in the military.

J.L. I do believe there is a spiritual quality to conscience, also. My oldest sister, who has her PhD in Anthropology, once observed that it is impossible for us to see faults in others that we don't already possess ourselves. That's more of an individual thing, I think, but of course it does have to do with social mores also.

I did a little research and found this bit of history for those who are interested:

http://www.weis.com/history.php?order_id=&session=

Well, Fresco once asked if philosophy was a way of life or an armchair topic, and I answered: Both. I still believe that, and it is for that reason that I asked this question.

Honor, duty, integrity all fall into the same circle and can also work against each other...trying to explain it here during my lunch minute the quote I can think of is "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and how duty can sway honor and integrity. So, in trying to define honor, yes, Im trying to define the opposite as well.
Interesting.
Anyway....
I think my favorite quote on honor however would be this one:

Wow! That just gave me goose bumps, Quinn. I saw that movie, but at the time "honor" was the furtherest thing from my mind.

One's honor and doing one's duty are greatly combined in my job, too...

Deb, You're gonna think that I'm silly, but would you elaborate a little?