Theists, How well can you defend your beilief that God exists?

Come on you two, solve your personal differences somewhere else.

@Val Killmore,

Bite me asshole. What was it you said? Moderator Wannabe.

******* hypocrite.

@Setanta,

I kept my end of the deal, and left your post, albeit, with a snarky comment.
And since you got a snarky comment on me, I ask nicely of you to respect my wishes, and leave the post for related topics to the original post.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

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To answer your question would be giving in to a loaded question, accepting the simple-minded premise. Don't look for that to happen.

The question was: Why do you feel so negatively toward me, Setanta?

There is nothing "loaded" about that question. Nor is it "simple-minded."

Why do you feel so negatively toward me, Setanta?

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@Val Killmore,

Oops, sorry, Val. I was composing my response to Setanta and did not see your request to take this point outside the thread.

I will comply.

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@Val Killmore,

Considering all the **** you've given me in the short time that you've been here, don't hold your breath, you snide son of a bitch. I've been following this thread since it began. I haven't commented on the almost daily stupidity i've seen, because it's mostly been on topic. Frank posted bullshit. I called him on it, and he can't handle that. Talk to Frank.

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@Frank Apisa,

Yeah, it's a loaded question--it's a "have you stopped beating your wife" question. I suspect you're not swift enough to figure out what that means, though.

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Benedicto de Spinoza was someone with whom my thoughts often cross paths...
Here goes a video on is life and work: (Subtitles are in Portuguese)

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Interesting guy.
I will definitely look into his philosophical ideas and thoughts/ intellectual orientation.

I'm reading his take on ethics, and his presentation on the matter is engaging.

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The Argument from Evil:

Simple answer to your question...God gave control to Earth, to the Devil...As his kingdom...

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1. God is omniscient (all-knowing).

God knows everything, But knows everything won't be good...

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2. God is omnipotent (all-powerful).

God is all powerful, but does not show all his power...

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3. God is omnibenevolent (all-good/morally perfect).

God is morally perfect, but not everyone believes he is....And does not force people to believe it...

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4. God created everything.

God created everything, but not everything he created is Good....

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5. If God created everything, then everything should be good.

No, If God wanted everything to be good, it would be...If God allowed a devil to exist...Then there is bad on Earth...And goodness, when you look for him, and find him, in his kingdom....And in other people...

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6. Not everything is good, as there is unnecessary suffering (not good) in the world.

Because God created an Angel who rebelled...Not because he is limited or evil....

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7. For example, fawns suffering for days in a forest then dying, with no one present to witness it—not good.

The law of the Blood, something must die, for something to flourish...

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8. So, either God did not create everything,

He did...

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or God is not all-good,

He is....

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or lacks one or both of the other omnis, as such omnis imply God would know of the suffering, be able to stop it, and be willing to stop it.

He could...But does not...Because Satan rules the Earth...Not God...God rules Heaven...And people...

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9. But if God did not create everything, then we have contradicted premise 4, and we are speaking of something less than God.

God created everything...And it does not make him less of a God....

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10. If God did create everything, then we must deny one or more of the omnis, or deny the existence of any god/creator whatsoever.

No, in his omnis, it could be the correct and good thing, for the way things are created...Any attempt to suggest otherwise, means you are trying to limit any living God...Perhaps this is why you see so much evil? Rather than what is bad=what is good...Because they are both required to have good...

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11. Therefore, there is no all-omnis God.

I see how you got there, now you see how I got there, with there being an omnis God....

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God created everything....

Yes...

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But does not control everything....

Yes...

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God is good,

Yes...

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but not everything he created is good...

Yes...

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God knows everything,

Yes...

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but knows everything won't be good...

Yes...

How much more omnis can you get? If everything was perfect, what is the point to even living on Earth? And how would we be the greatest of all creations, if we did not have free will, to chose to accept or reject this God...Who says that faith is the way to find him? The hardest test...If everything was perfected...He is not omnis at all...He can only do one thing...Only what we would want...We would be Gods, and he would be the servant...

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What is a more omnis way? If there was proof, and everything was perfect,

I disagree...If this was true, we would not be the greatest of all creation, under him....and we would be Gods, and he would be a servant to us....therefore evil=goodness....Because you need both, to understand the difference...To make us, who we are, and him, who he is...Because you now have a choice...between the two...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I suppose you prove you are free because you say so...
"True freedom" would imply I was the creator of myself a contradiction in terms...
...so no such thing as freedom exists as an absolute... thus ultimately we are not fully responsible for ourselves and our actions...not even a supposed God is responsible for his own nature as God didn't create itself...therefore everything is circumstantial and no one controls ****...finally and obviously you don't have a clue on what I am going on about and I am just loosing my time...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

I do understand....But this is the second or third time you said this kind of bullshit to me...So have fun, thinking you are a "Superior thinker"

I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and say right again Fil...

Have a nice day!

BTW...I don't remember you creating this thread, and those are my answers...You don't have to agree...

But stop condescending people.....

There is no need to do it.... 2 Cents

All I will say is this...

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thus ultimately we are not fully responsible for ourselves and our actions...not even a supposed God is responsible for his own nature

I do not agree with predestined fate....

Is it wrong for me to disagree with you?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

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thus ultimately we are not fully responsible for ourselves and our actions...not even a supposed God is responsible for his own nature as God didn't create itself

And why don't you take the time to explain to me, how you can "prove" this to be true? Since I understand so little...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Because what does not yet exist cannot create itself if it does not yet exist, and if it does already exist it didn't choose to be what it is, thus it acts accordingly to its unchosen nature...it is a circumstantial being ! Its called LOGIC !!!

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Because what does not yet exist cannot create itself if it does not yet exist, and if it does already exist it didn't choose to be what it is, thus it acts accordingly to its unchosen nature...it is a circumstantial being ! Its called LOGIC !!!

...oh dear...here let me give you a hand...the counter argument you could use goes as follow:

God does not have one specific nature but rather is the ground of all natures thus God it is not circumstantial once God is all that can be and there is nothing behind or beyond its beingness...

...but that of course would imply in a first reading (amongst other possible forms of classification) that God is "good" and "bad", the source of chaos and order...unless of course you jump a step forward and realise that chaos and order help each other or are the reason of each other just like there are cops because there are thief's and without thief's cops would be out of job and cease to exist...then necessarily you realize regarding ultimate nature that all that exists and comes from God is good even those things that are in conflict...it is the case that conflict is needed.
"Good" and "bad" are relative dispositions in the order of some things against the order of others...for instance an asteroid collision with Earth 65M years ago was "bad" for the dinosaurs although it was "good" for us mammals...we are opposing species...I could give you a million examples but I hope you did get the picture already...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

The big symbolic defeat of the "Devil" goes precisely in realising that there is no devil or that the "devil" or "evil" are ultimately needed and good in the final order of things...thus conflict between order and chaos are finally resolved in what we usually call complex order...roughness...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

...you know what is the difference here ? while some people desperately want to make a case and an argument for God and can't, others that actually could, be convincing and all, are not really interested...why ?
...the river follows its own path and most smart people wont interfere with it...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

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and if it does already exist it didn't choose to be what it is, thus it acts accordingly to its unchosen nature

If a God actually exists, it could do anything it wanted to do, plain and simple...It could destroy itself, it could recreate itself...It always was....It never had to be...It did not have to chose anything...It could chose anything, it wants to chose...But if it wanted to do it...It certainly could do it...God is anything and everything...Therefor, it clearly has no guidelines, or restrictions....

I was away, for a bit....That is seriously, what you were so egotistical about? Really? Not even worth my time...

Just because you "believe" or "think" that a God would be subject to a predestined fate, does not, at all, mean you are right....Or that other people are stupid for disagreeing...Or are not up to your level of intelligence...Talk about ridiculous...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

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...oh dear...here let me give you a hand...the counter argument you could use goes as follow:

I do not need you help, at all!~ I have heard enough, already...

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but I hope you did get the picture already...

Oh, I got the picture already! It seems you believe God exists...Or could...I am not sure....And by the way you talk, you sound as though, you wholeheartedly believe in Taoism...Or a philosophy like it....Sorry to tell you, I do not believe, at all, one second of me, that we need a balance of Good and bad to make things work....Not at all....About the only thing I find, may be true, is words of truth, are paradoxical....

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

...you know what is the difference here ? while some people desperately want to make a case and an argument for God and can't, others that actually could, be convincing and all, are not really interested...why ?
...the river follows its own path and most smart people wont interfere with it...

Pure horse ****! And another snide remark....You can not disprove a God, just like I can not prove a God exists...to you....

You can say anything you would like too...To try to make me swallow the medicine, and telling me it is sugar...but it won't work....And not only that...Making condescending remarks about how intelligent you are...Either means a person is insecure about themselves...Or two, they really are not smart at all....You may sound cunning and clever....But it is all just very nice sounding bullshit you are peddling...

You, and people, you associate with...Have no utter knowledge, that others do not....And you do not seem like an intellectual to me, at all....You sound like a cocky jerk, who thinks he is the smartest man alive....When all you do, is try to deceive people with cunning and clever words...And talk about how smart you are!...That is all...I ain't buyin' it....And I am not dumb enough to fall for that...You won't take my word, for it, about God...I ain't taking your word...that you are right....And you have this intelligence, that many do not have...and can not understand you....Once again, talk about being ridiculous....

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Theists, How well can you defend your beilief that God exists?

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