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The Basic stupidity of evolution and evolosers

 
 
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2012 11:28 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
Or has physics changed in the last 6000 years too?


That is the basis of Horvind's, and by extension Ganjadude, argument against an old universe.

Rap
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2012 11:56 am
@parados,
Quote:
Wouldn't that much matter arriving from outer space have some impact record that we would be able to find?


http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4291251?uid=3739936&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21100797268421


for starters
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2012 01:19 pm
@parados,
This is even worse logic than he initially stated. The entire Sahara basin area was in place for millions of years. Sand is hardly a big problem since it was incorporated in the initial sediments. In accordance with Hjolstum's LAW, the smallest particles merely blow away and leave the silys and sands,

Gung is so fuckin easy. hes never had an original idea nor hs he understood anything writte before him.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2012 01:23 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Quote:
Where did the Sahara sand come from? It [THE SAND] did not exist 6,000 years ago. Experts [as opposed to blowhards like you] are proposing that vast oceans of sand formed in less than 3,300 years
More gungasmoke. These Electric douche bags have no clue.
The history of the Sahara they are trying to convince you of , is a fact that this represents only the :LAST desertification event.
Cmon try using whatever small amount of brainpower youve inherited. (Apparently you are ineducable)
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2012 01:29 pm
Heres an article from the CNRS

Quote:

Old desert, new knowledge
Until now, it was thought that the oldest sand dunes in the Sahara were only 86,000 years old. A team of Franco-Chadian scientists recently uncovered formations of fossil dunes proving the Sahara to have known its first desert-like conditions more than 7 million years ago.(1)


© P. Duringer-MPFT/CNRS-ULPS
Detail from a fossil dune. For sedimentologists, the aspect of the sand and quartz grains, the presence of wind wrinkles and oblique sediment deposits are all characteristics of a desert formation.

Since their discovery of Abel, the first Australopithecine west of the Rift Valley in 1995, and their 2001 discovery of Toumaï, the oldest known hominid, researchers from the Franco-Chadian Paleoanthropological Mission (MPFT) led by Michel Brunet,2 have been focusing their attention on the Toros-Menalla fossiliferous area of the Djurab desert in northern Chad, a region bearing abundant vertebrate remains.

Understanding the emergence of ancient hominids requires an accurate knowledge of their living environments. Working alongside paleontologists, geologists have been trying to retrace these different environments through the study of sedimentary and biosedimentary deposits including vertebrate but also invertebrate fauna. Through the analysis of fauna and deposits, scientists are thus able to determine if sandstone has been deposited by water (a river), by wind (dunes), or in a lake. Ancient deposits are then compared with the present environment, using the concept of actualism, meaning that the same physical laws governed in the past as they do at present. Each environment has a particular geo-biological signature: lithology (grain size, texture and color of the mineral content), sedimentary structures (the three-dimensional physical features of sedimentary rock), geometry of the deposits and paleontological content. In Northern Chad, the geologists discovered sandstone outcrops that were composed of fine poorly cemented white sands, made up of quartz grains that were well sorted, well rounded, matt, and frosted. They also showed typical alternations of grain-fall (gravity-driven depositions of individual particles) and grain-flow (collective movement of solid particles) laminations. This texture and structure enabled the scientists to identify the Toros-Menalla area as migrating fossil eolian dune formations. By comparing the evolutionary degree of the mammalian fauna from the Chadian outcrops with that of southern, northern, and eastern African sites, they were able to date them back to 7 million years ago.

With the help of prehistoric rock carvings showing giraffes, elephants, and crocodiles in regions that are dry today, as well as through geological and sedimentary findings, we now know that the Chad Basin has been under successive humid (mega lake Chad) and arid conditions since the late Miocene.
In the middle of the Holocene period, 5000 years ago, the mega lake Chad occupied a surface of 400,000 km2, as opposed to the 5000 km2 it accounts for today. The fact that the present drought is part of a long-standing cycle indicates that climate change has always been a part of the Earth's dynamic. “Even if some climate change is imputable to man, it is only a variation among the millions of variations the earth has known”, explains Philippe Duringer, from the Surface Geochemical Center in Strasbourg.3 “Every sedimentary deposit, however old, shows evidence of these climate variations. In the Sahara, it's even more obvious because the piles of sediment show an alternation between so-called green periods (humid climate) and yellow periods (arid to desert-like climate).” Research suggests the Sahara has experienced humid/dry alternations for at least ten, maybe fifteen, or even twenty million years.
The leap from 86,000 years to 7 million years is considerable, effectively a revolution in the understanding of how climate change shaped the Sahara desert, but unfortunately there are very little archives in situ. Most of the Sahara is suffering from erosion and many deposits have already vanished because although there are dunes, there is very little accumulation: Over time, the whole of northern Chad has hollowed out by 100 meters, simply from the wind's removal of fine dust and sand, known as eolian deflation. Scientists working on the Franco-Chadian project are confident that more discoveries are yet to be made, from older to more recent evidence of climatic changes.


Even 86000 years was a measure oif what was the most recent evidence of a basin that had been there with vast climate changes for several million years.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2012 05:43 pm
@gungasnake,
Hmm.. so your evidence is sand deposits that are at least 11,700 years old? That proves that sand arrived in the last 6000 years? Your math is astounding gunga.
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2012 05:57 pm
@parados,
Another of the "Theories" posed by these electric universe guys is kinda funny. Gunga is chattering that clear evidence of the ages of the Patagonian massif and the Sahara should be ignored in favor of the blatherings of these loons.
Heres another one in which they rave on about the formation of speciific cliffs of the world . They start with the Trango tower and especially Trango Monk (a tower cliff of solid granite that lies in the western edge of the himalayan uplift).

Quote:
Electric Universe theorists postulate that between 5000 and 10,000 years ago (perhaps sooner), the Earth and its sister planets were engulfed in a catastrophic interplay of celestial forces that have not been seen since. Clouds of electrified plasma and electric arcs described by the ancients as "thunderbolts of the gods" dissected the continental geography, creating what traditional theories say are ages-old structures in an instant of time.

Sky-high tornadoes of fire writhed across the face of the Earth, excavating canyons, ocean basins, and river valleys. Lakes like inland oceans were vaporized along with their attendant flora and fauna, leaving nothing but scorched and naked stone behind. Those plasma vortices formed intense electrodynamic fields that compressed and lifted material out of the surrounding region. The resulting "fulgamites" are mistaken for intrusions when they are actually extrusions. The Brandberg Massif, Shiprock, New Mexico, and Uluru were given as examples of that phenomenon in past Picture of the Day articles
This guy needs to go take a field trip or two. At each site one can find evidence that counters the "electric arc" stories they are tring to pitch on the gullible.

Trango Monk is a true cliff that has been caused by uplift, piedmont glacial erosion and that is coupled with the fact that the "Tor" is made of solid granite, (a rock that really can hold a cliffslope). Think of El Capitan in the Yosemite Valley. Thats another cliff made of granite and the evidence is clear that it was caused by glaciation in the late Pleistocene. The uplifted rocks (part of the Sierra, are indicators of uplift related to Mid Tertiary subduction of california)
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2012 01:20 pm
@farmerman,
I forgot, since gunga seems to have departed this thread, to mention that the examples of "fulgamites" (sic) were all wrong [as opposed to fulgurites, which are the only thing Ive heard of].

The "electric universe dudes" state that Uluru and Shiprock Colo are examples of areas "Struck" by these huuge bolts. Both shiprock and Uluru are sedimentary deposits of ARKOSIC sadstones. The red color has nothing to do with anything other than oxidation of the sedimentary iron in the original deposits.

No evidence of anything extra terrestrial at either place(asw far as Im aware).

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2012 02:27 pm
OK, no Gunga . . . what about punctuated equilibrium, what about micro- versus macroevoloserism . . . yadda yadda yadda . . .
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2012 02:37 pm
@Setanta,
AND the flagon with the dragon...
Has the brew that is true...
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