What is 'formlessness'?

@comfyblanket,

cloud formations

@OmSigDAVID,

Cloud formations have shape or form. Perhaps a fog that is surrounding me is more formless. And maybe we should define "formlessness" as a distinct object of perception that has no form or shape.
Trying to identify the "essential" nature of "formlessness" is putting the cart before the horse. I once tried to correct for this error by identifying a "puppy" with the hypothetical situation of one man asking another "How should we refer to a young dog?

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@OmSigDAVID,

Cloud formations have shape or form. Perhaps a fog that is surrounding me is more formless. And maybe we should define "formlessness" as a distinct object of perception that has no form or shape.
Trying to identify the "essential" nature of "formlessness" is putting the cart before the horse. I once tried to correct for this error by identifying a "puppy" with the hypothetical situation of one man asking another "How should we refer to a young dog?

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@JLNobody,

Quote:

Trying to identify the "essential" nature of "formlessness" is putting the cart before the horse.

...from your very own assumed judgement, what cart ? what horse ? "identifying" what that has no "essential" to it ? "A" that it is not A ? at best you get to multiply, not to exclude as you get 2 instead of one...
...if there is such a self consistent thing we phenomenally identify as "formlessness" without falling in a conceptual misunderstanding, such thing is exactly to report no the absence of shape but the presence of many shapes occurring as we observe "sharpness change"...

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Off the top of my head, I'd go with 'that which cannot be either perceived or conceived'. Anything that exists (and I use that word without the etymological baggage) has form. At the very least on the atomic or sub-atomic level. So formlessness would have to be a complete lack of anything. Including thought about it.

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@rockpie,

Interesting!

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@comfyblanket,

Quote:

what fields of study does it belong in

More than likely in abstract topology. Here's a good overview of the concept.

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Since all forms are formless if you magnify large enough, therefore formlessness is the essence of form. You should study Quantum Physics.

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@comfyblanket,

comfyblanket wrote:

can you define it? and what fields of study does it belong in?

I always figured things like, thoughts were formless. They seem to arrise from out of complete nothingness and flow like a stream back into the nothingness. Sure there are things that may spark an idea but they still seem to arrise from no where and also "return" to that same "place".

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@comfyblanket,

After death, the last formality will be filling out your death certificate. The last form having been filed, you're in the state of formlessness.

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@comfyblanket,

Quote:

can you define it?

(a) Components or substance arranged into a pattern judged random -- not classifiable or identifiable as a standardized or documented shape / scheme.

(b) Extended but featureless uniformity devoid of discernable change to even indicate movement in space and time.

(c) Lack of space. No room for individuation and distinction to be mapped / manifested, for enabling separation while maintaining connection via extended relations that result in variable configurations. No room for featureless homogeneity, either.

Quote:

and what fields of study does it belong in?

Billy Mumy's cornfield (It's A Good Life, TZ). Non-consciousness studies. Post-life studies. Dreamless sleep studies. BS studies.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Quote:
Trying to identify the "essential" nature of "formlessness" is putting the cart before the horse.

...from your very own assumed judgement, what cart ? what horse ? "identifying" what that has no "essential" to it ? "A" that it is not A ? at best you get to multiply, not to exclude as you get 2 instead of one...
...if there is such a self consistent thing we phenomenally identify as "formlessness" without falling in a conceptual misunderstanding, such thing is exactly to report no the absence of shape but the presence of many shapes occurring as we observe "shapness change"...

...correction in blue...

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What is 'formlessness'?

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