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Do We Live in Matter or in Our Vision of Matter?

 
 
Warraq
 
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 08:20 am
We do not live in matter, we live in our vision of it. Else we would have known matter instinctively.

We live through our vision of the world, and this vision is immaterial. Matter, however, is existent. If we humans were originally material we wouldn’t need to study the laws of matter. We don’t study the laws of feelings; we instinctively know beauty, but we don’t instinctively know chemistry or geometry. This proves that we live in the realm of the soul not in the realm of matter. Everyone knows what is sad or funny without having to be given an introductory course in the comedy theater for example. But no one knows the components of the simple matter in front of them except through difficult study of physics. Even though if the causes of laughter are studied they would become a difficult science, how about the rest of moral, mental and psychological phenomena that everyone knows easily?

We are not products of matter, our minds are not evolved from matter even if we have material neurology. The nervous system is only a channel connecting our moral (immaterial) existence with our material existence.

It is a quite sufficient proof for this that man knows their mood, feelings and emotions better than their body. Almost all people go to the physician, but a lot less see the psychiatrist, which reveals the difference of percentage on the scale of knowledge. If you are in a psychological pain you can often identify the problem, but you don’t know what is going on when you have a back pain or shortness of breath except through what the doctor told you, let alone knowing the cure. Your diagnosis for your emotional problem is easier than diagnosing your physical problem. For example, you know that you are suffering from feelings of alienation for sure, but you don’t know that you are suffering from a blockage in the gall bladder except through what you learned from the doctor, and the doctor knew through what the tests and symptoms showed him/her .
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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 1,837 • Replies: 13
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djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 08:21 am
nothing really matters


and so what if it did
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 08:32 am
@djjd62,
No matter, never mind.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 09:24 am
Descartes rides again ! Smile
0 Replies
 
Decarti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 05:56 pm
@Warraq,

Warraq.. the fact that we intuitively know the most complex laws of feelings and don't know the most simple construction of matter intuitively seems to be a hard blow on the face of the materialist philosophy.

how can we be purely physical and yet be ignorant of our own physical existence? since we are material our intuition should also be material, but apparently it‘s not!

OP: thumbs up!
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 06:31 pm
@Decarti,
I wasn't aware that there are laws of complex feelings, let alone that we "know" them -- especially intuitively. I was likewise unaware that we should have some sort of intuition about matter. Where can I find more information supporting these ideas?
north
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 08:33 pm

both
we live in matter because thats what allows to become a physical being
we live our vision of matter from what we can see , as narrow a spectrum of light as it is
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 11:58 pm
@thack45,
You are correct to put "know" in quotation marks ! "Knowledge" is usually about prediction and control. Psychiatrists make a living by speculating in that nebulous area we call "the mind", where such prediction and control is notoriously illusive.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2012 06:50 am
@fresco,
Actually in some cases very much like yours its very easy to predict and control that you will keep posting that babbling ad nausea forever...
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2012 10:57 am
@Warraq,
Quote:
We live through our vision of the world, and this vision is immaterial. Matter, however, is existent.

How do you arrive from the assertion that we live through our vision to the conclusion that matter is existent?

Quote:
We don’t study the laws of feelings; we instinctively know beauty, but we don’t instinctively know chemistry or geometry.

In most everything you seem to be a Platonist, although in regard to geometry and mathematics in general, Plato disagrees with you.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2012 11:56 am
@Warraq,
A school of sociology says something of a parallel nature: We do not behave in situations, we behave in our definitions of situations.
(Cooley's "The Definition of the Situation")
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2012 11:56 am
@Warraq,
A school of sociology says something of a parallel nature: We do not behave in situations, we behave in our definitions of situations.
(Cooley's "The Definition of the Situation")
0 Replies
 
popeye1945
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2021 01:21 am
@Warraq,
Warraq, There are two levels of reality being discussed here, one apparent reality, our every day experience, and ultimate reality, that which we do not have access to through our biological senses. Apparent reality is a biological readout of the totality of our senses and is a world of objects to our senses. Ultimate reality of the other hand is not available to us on the same level, and science takes us on a quest of the ultimate reality, for ultimate reality is a place of no things and is the source you might say of our everyday reality our apparent reality.
0 Replies
 
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2021 04:00 am
@Warraq,
Both!
0 Replies
 
 

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