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Thu 5 Feb, 2004 07:34 am
Australians were terrified yesterday by photographs (on the front page of my local rag!) of the conservative Prime Minister (John Howard) and the Leader of the Opposition (Mark Latham) sitting on the floor in (separate) school classrooms.
While it is believed that both are quite capable of spelling potato, and are able to put sentences together - generally - without embarrassing themselves, the sight was nonetheless disturbing because it signals clearly that a Federal election is looming on the horizon.
Mr Howard, once dismissed as too boring to elect, has now served two terms as Prime Minister, after clinging like a limpet to his party's hull until everybody else gave up. The electorate's terror is increased by the spectre of his likely successor, current treasurer Costello, who has recently been trying to add an atmosphere of warmth and geniality to his former bruising image, rather hampered by his cheerful, dingo-like, predatory grin.
Mr Latham - formerly famous for his larrikinism, brutal (de rigeur for the New South Wales Right Wing Labor Party, which was his political cradle) speech, his right wing (for Australian Labor politicians) scholarship and explosive books, for breaking the arm of a taxi driver who seriously annoyed him and for extremely negative comments about George Bush,(which Australians felt were Largely True, Very Funny, But Somewhat Tactless) is also trying for a newer, gentler, statesmanlike look - and doing pretty damned well, as far as I can tell.
Babies throughout the land are bracing themselves for an expected kissing onslaught - mall-shoppers for the appearance of both pollies with entourages and pollsters - schools and other touching sites for frenzied descents from above by helicopters full of men in suits - and the odd woman - and all of us for door-knockings and telephone calls.
The outback has its share of suffering to endure - Mark Latham has gone the way of others before him and taken a Bus to the Bush - fortunately through areas with good wines, which has doubtless cheered the weary press corps, if rendered their early morning starts hideous with hangovers.
And me? Sigh ..... soon, no doubt, I shall be stuffing envelopes in letter boxes - fearing for my life whenever I do it in those labelled "No Junk Mail", although I am told earnestly that political information is NOT junk mail. I hope the bull terrier owners believe that...
If we are REALLY lucky we shall get Leaders' Debate - complete with the fascinating "Worm" - a wiggly creature depicting the reactions of a supposedly representative bunch of Australians locked in rooms with + and - buttons which appears under the film of the debate.
Really, it is as interesting as the lovely little trail that appears on Qantas international flights, between films, which traces one's infinitely slow progress - a thing fraught with ambiguity on the long Singapore/London flight when your bum is screaming for mercy and sleep impossible to find...
Aussie politics 2007
That was way back in Feb 2004...
Fast Forward to Jan, Feb, March 2007 to the State Election... and then on to the Federal one later on in the year.
What is in store for us now?
In hindsight, have we learned any lessons?
Does Kevin Rudd have a chance? PLESE say YES!
Good luck with the "letter boxing".
Hi Vonda..........I can only hope yes.
At least, as far as know, Rudd has always been pretty civilized!
Other than the change of leaders, that post looks damn current, doesn't it?
Perhaps Howard will no longer sit on floors, after a few years?
Is he going to try thumbs, as suggested by George Bush?
Please, deb, what were the Largely True, Very Funny, but Probably Tactless descriptions of George Bush? We Yanks can always use new (or in this case old but hopefully still potent) ammo for potshots at him and the remaining 20% of the pop. who still inexplicably believe in him, most of whom seem to reside on a2k.
username wrote:Please, deb, what were the Largely True, Very Funny, but Probably Tactless descriptions of George Bush? We Yanks can always use new (or in this case old but hopefully still potent) ammo for potshots at him and the remaining 20% of the pop. who still inexplicably believe in him, most of whom seem to reside on a2k.
Latham, who was then a backbencher in the opposition, called Bush:
"the most dangerous and incompetent president in living memory"
I think he said some other stuff that I cannot find right now....
It led to Some Fallout, and a lot of intervention by Bushco when latham became leader of the opposition.
Here is a contemporary discussion:
Broadcast: 07/02/2003
Debate over Labor's comments on US
The US has cried foul over comments some Labor MPs have made in parliament this week. Tony Jones is joined by Labor frontbencher Mark Latham and Liberal MP Christopher Pyne, who claims Labor is making 'Trotskyite' attacks on the American Government.
Compere: Tony Jones
Reporter: Tony Jones
TONY JONES: Now to our Friday forum.
Just one subject tonight -- the ongoing debate over the Government's support of the US hard line on Iraq.
After a week of torrid debate in Parliament, the US ambassador Tom Schieffer was clearly stung by succession of attacks by senior Labor politicians on President Bush and his war plans.
By this morning, an unsourced story on the front page of the 'Australian' claimed that the US was furious with the ALP and that it's anti-Americanism is damaging the Australia-US alliance.
Later, the ambassador went public with his concerns and Foreign Minister Downer weighed in too, accusing Simon Crean "blowing the dog-whistle of anti-Americanism".
In short order, the Opposition leader moved to put a lid on his most vociferous colleagues and called in the ambassador of his office for a private chat.
Joining me now to discuss the implications of all this, is Labor frontbencher Mark Latham, who this week described the Government as "a conga line of suckholes" to the US.
He's here in our Sydney studio.
And in Adelaide, is the Liberal MP Chris Pyne who accused his Labor opponents of "Trotskyite attacks" on the US and the Government.
TONY JONES: Mark Latham, are you at all concerned that your comments and those of your Labor colleagues have in fact damaged or could damage the ANZUS alliance?
MARK LATHAM, LABOR FRONTBENCHER: I think that's a nonsense really.
The ANZUS alliance hasn't been invoked to justify action in Iraq and no-one expects it would be.
The point of the alliance is that we don't always have to agree, just as the Americans didn't put any ground troops into East Timor when we had our peacekeeping mission there, it doesn't necessarily follow that Australia has to say, yes, yes, yes, all the time to the US and the great sadness and tragedy of the Howard Government foreign policy is they're too weak to say no, too weak to say no to the US and effectively they've given away Australia's sovereignty.
The Howard Government just always says yes to the US and foreign policy for our country is made out of Washington, not out of Canberra.
TONY JONES: Do you stand by your statement made in Parliament this week that George W Bush is the most incompetent and dangerous president in living memory?
MARK LATHAM: I do.
Mainly for the reason that Australian people say to me they have very little confidence in President Bush.
He has this evangelical style, a fanatical approach.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of rational decision making going on.
And I noticed with interest two days ago, the same day that I made my speech in the Australian Parliament, that Laurie Oakes in the 'Bulletin' wrote, "Coalition strategists conceded the US President is not a figure who commands great admiration in this country.
People regard him as a clown."
Let me repeat that.
"People regard him as a clown, a Liberal MP says bluntly."
It's not only the Labor side of politics that expresses this lack of confidence in George W Bush.
It's a Liberal MP saying he belongs in a circus.
I went easy on him by comparison with this Liberal MP.
TONY JONES: Why do you say the most incompetent and dangerous president in living memory?
MARK LATHAM: Well, in my speech, I outlined at length my concern --
TONY JONES: More dangerous than Richard Nixon for example?
More incompetent than a man who was impeached.
Is that what you're saying MARK LATHAM: I outlined my concern that President Bush is moving down the wrong strategy to win the war against terror.
I would have thought post-September 11 that the war against terror would be waged against terrorists, not the women and children of nation states.
We do have a weakness -- the US intelligence capacity in the Middle East is weak.
I quoted number of CIA operatives who say that the US does haven't the human intelligence to counteract al-Qa'ida, to catch Osama bin Laden.
To effectively win the war against terror.
That's why the US military apparatus, it's a one trick pony, that's why it's turned to what it does best, the one thing it can do -- that's to knock over nation states.
TONY JONES: What about your personal criticism of George W Bush?
You're saying he was worse than a president who was impeached?
MARK LATHAM: It follows that critique, it follows my critique that he's got the wrong strategy now.
From an Australian perspective, to follow an American President who's got the wrong strategy in the war against terror is very, very dangerous for our country, Tony.
Very dangerous for our country.
We're rushing blindly to follow the US into this conflict and it's not in Australia's national interest.
It might be in the American interest, as they've defined it.
But we're Australians, not Americans and we have to do the thing that's right for our country.
TONY JONES: Right, let me turn to Chris Pyne who's been patiently sitting there in Adelaide.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE, LIBERAL MP: Very patiently, very patiently.
TONY JONES: Chris Pyne, welcome back.
Surely the ANZUS alliance can stand a little bit of robust free speech.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, Tony, what Mark Latham has just been doing in the last four minutes is making out the case that both Thomas Schieffer, the US ambassador and the Government have been making out today -- listening to the debates in Parliament and listening to the speeches from Labor members and particularly Mark Latham's, the Labor Party is clearly very anti the US alliance.
And the only point that Tom Schieffer made and that the Government has made is that, if the ALP was to be in power, that attitude which has been so obviously demonstrated by Mark Latham in the last three or four minutes and in the Parliament all week, the attitude of the Labor Party is clearly not conducive to a robust and healthy US alliance.
TONY JONES: Chris Pyne, let me break in here if I can, just briefly.
It's not as if Mark Latham is alone in holding these views.
The former Liberal Party president John Valder wrote last week that Washington needs regime change as much as Iraq.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: What we're talking about today is the Labor Party this week in Parliament.
John Valder has no influence over the US alliance.
TONY JONES: I'm simply pointing out Chris Pyne that there appear to be grave reservations on both sides of politics.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: thatJohn Valder Yes, but I'm saying that John Valder doesn't have any influence over the relationship between the US and Australia.
The ALP alternative Government will have some influence over the relationship, very strong if it ever wins election.
What we've seen from Mark Latham today, which a he has hot backed down from one iota, is rampant anti-Americanism.
Listening to the speeches of my Labor colleagues this week it was quite obvious that many of them have not in the least bit changed from their Vietnam '60s sort of mantra, which they're now bringing out for the Iraq war and let me say this, if Simon Crean was a leader with any strength of character he would discipline Mark Latham today.
Instead he tried to skirt around the issues so that it just didn't matter.
Kevin Rudd said he wouldn't use the same language that Mark Latham uses.
The issue here is that Simon Crean is more frightened of Mark Latham than he is of Saddam Hussein and he won't discipline his frontbenchers.
TONY JONES: Let me go to Mark Latham and raise that specific point.
Simon Crean spoke to you directly today.
Did he tell you to rein in the criticism of the US President?
MARK LATHAM: I'm not going to go into detail of conversations that I have with the leader away from the public forum.
You've heard what I've had here to say tonight.
I'm here to talk on my behalf.
TONY JONES: Can we assume that, if he did tell you to rein yourself in, you're refusing to do so?
MARK LATHAM: Well, I'm just pointing out the facts.
And the facts are this concern about George W Bush are on both sides of politics.
I've quoted one of Chris's parliamentary colleagues -- you've mentioned John Valder -- we have former Liberal PM Malcolm Fraser expressing the same view and John Hewson.
For Chris to say the Opposition out of Government has a bigger influence on the American alliance than people like Malcolm Fraser and John Hewson is nonsense.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: They have --
MARK LATHAM: Chris hugely admires Malcolm Fraser but he won't follow his sensible view on Iraq because he's afraid of offending John Howard and Howard won't offend George W Bush.
There's an argument to be put that this conflict is not in Australia's national interest, the conflict led unilaterally by the US.
That's a valid point of view that must be put.
TONY JONES: I'm going to interrupt you for a moment because I will come on to that specific point you made.
At the present moment you have the freedom to be a bit of a renegade, say whatever you like.
If you were leader of the Labor Party, would you dare say those sort of things about the US President?
MARK LATHAM: Well, I'm not expecting to be leader of the Labor Party.
Simon Crean will lead us to the next election.
That's right and proper.
Look, members of Parliament lined up -- 100 members spoke in the House of Representatives.
My obligation is to speak within the terms of ALP policy, which I did and say what I think.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You didn't actually speak within ALP policy today -- .
MARK LATHAM: We've got one of Chris' colleagues calling him a clown, calling the American President a clown.
We have a long line of Liberal elder statesman with severe reservations about the Bush regime, calling for regime change in Washington.
Most importantly, it's the view of the Australian people.
The number of people who come up to me and say they're worried about the capacity --
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: They have to be fair and reasonable.
MARK LATHAM: I'm sure they're in Chris's electorate as well.
The number of people who question Bush's capacity to lead us is extraordinary.
We should be very aware of the lack of public confidence in what's going on.
TONY JONES: Chris Pyne.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Two points -- either he is defying Simon Crean by continuing in the vane that he's continuing tonight and did on the radio today, on 2UE and 2GB, or Simon Crean doesn't have the guts to stand up to his frontbenchers.
MARK LATHAM: You said, Tony, he is not very influential now that he is can be a renegade.
The reality is he would be a senior Minister in a Labor government if they won election.
How is he expected to have a relationship with the US after basically calling out that the President of the US is a liar, because that's what the Labor Party's been trying to put the case out all week.
MARK LATHAM: I never said he was a liar.
I never said that.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You refer to the war in Iraq --
MARK LATHAM: You're verballing me.
I haven't called him that.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The Labor Party this week have tried to make the case that John Howard has made a commitment to troops in Iraq in a war.
Which we have not done.
They've said that all week.
Either John Howard is a liar and George Bush are liars or they're not.
That's the case they've been trying to make.
So Simon Crean --
TONY JONES: That argument --
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He is more frightened of Mark Latham than Saddam Hussein.
MARK LATHAM: You're repeating yourself.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You've been repeating yourself all night.
MARK LATHAM: One of the Liberal colleagues has called the American President a clown.
So if Chris thinks that I've done something wrong he'll have to have a big inquisition in the Liberal Party to weed out this person and fry him in public.
But Chris will never do anything to upset the Americans.
He gives away Australian sovereignty because he can never say no or disagree with the Americans.
TONY JONES: This is a critical point it seems to me.
We're talking about Labor policy a moment ago.
You said in your speech this week and I notice you're wearing a ribbon for peace today.
You said we should not be contributing to the horrors of war and the slaughters of tens of thousands of innocent people, when a better policy or strategy is available.
You stand by that?
MARK LATHAM: I do.
I mean, war is just a shocking thing, a shocking thing.
For parliamentarians, we have the luxury of going home to our families at night.
Chris and I will go home to our children.
But for the tens of thousand of innocent people -- men, women and children in Iraq -- who are going to be slaughtered, how people can sort of just not contemplate or consider that factor as Australia signs up to a war, I find it so heartless, so callous.
TONY JONES: Let me then hit the key point here about Labor policy.
If the UN Security Council finally authorises such a war against Iraq, is it acceptable, according to Labor policy, to have such a war that kills tens of thousands of people.
MARK LATHAM: Our policy is to try and get support from the international community before rushing into any action.
Basically to exhaust all the avenues and use war as a last resort after all the UN processes have been exhausted.
TONY JONES: In the end, will you support a war as you've described, which kills tens of thousands of people, just because the UN says it's OK to have one?
MARK LATHAM: We don't know the terms and conditions of a UN resolution.
We've still hoping that all the avenues can be exhausted.
As one of the French diplomats said, there's a lot of unused space left in the US resolution.
TONY JONES: You haven't answered the basic question.
If if Security Council says yes to war, Labor says yes to war?
MARK LATHAM: We have to see the terms and condition of of the resolution.
There's a big difference between strong-arm unilateral US action and action that's sanctioned by the UN that could be far more cautious and far more humane in its impact on civilians.
That's just the truth of the matter.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: If it's UN, it's a more humane one?
MARK LATHAM: Hang on, Chris, you just get this right in your head -- we've heard some US officials talking about the use of nuclear weapons.
We've heard some US officials leaving open the possibility of nuclear weapons used in a conflict against Iraq, led unilaterally by the US.
I don't think that will ever happen under a UN resolution or action.
That's a big difference.
TONY JONES: If the UN authorises the US to undertake this war, the United States will prosecute the war.
MARK LATHAM: If the UN organises its forces and it wouldn't be authorising use of nuclear weapons by the US.
Chris tries to trivialise this because he doesn't mention the women and children in Iraq or think about them for a moment but it's a consideration.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That is absolutely outrageous.
MARK LATHAM: Did you mention them in your 15-speech speech?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: What about the women and children who have been murdered already by Saddam Hussein using chemical weapons?
What about mentioning them?
I've sat here while you've talked about how outrageous it would be to have a war in Iraq because of the women and children.
But you haven't mentioned the tens of thousands of Kurds who have already died at the hands of Saddam Hussein using chemical weapons.
Don't you feel about them?
I could throw that back at you just as harshly but I don't so.
But you've done it to me.
MARK LATHAM: One wrong doesn't justify another.
Everyone wants an end to the human rights abuses.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Disarming Saddam Hussein --
MARK LATHAM; Tens of thousands of women and children doesn't justify or make better the fact that these atrocities have been committed in the past.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Disarming Saddam Hussein will stop that happening.
MARK LATHAM: Justifying one wrong with another is just lunacy.
TONY JONES: Can I just interrupt with a question, Chris Pyne?
Given the disquiet even in your own party about this issue, should your members, at least on your side of the House, been given a conscience vote on this issue as to whether or not to support a potential war?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Tony, this is probably one of the most difficult issues that the Government will face, but it's not the kind of issue that you can have a conscience vote on.
It's a an issue where a PM primarily backed by his Cabinet and by his party has to make a tough decision.
It's why the electorate elect governments and it's why they elected John Howard to govern because they believed that he would be the person to make these sorts of tough decisions.
They didn't believe Kim Beazley had the strength and that will be borne out in this time of crisis.
It's not the sort of issue that you can have a conscience vote on.
It's the sort of issue that the Government has to make a tough decision and a lot weighs on the PM's shoulders.
MARK LATHAM: You wouldn't find a conscience or anyone to say no to the Americans in your party, other that the MP who says Bush is a clown.
TONY JONES: That's all we have time for.
Thanks to both of you for joining us for the first of what I imagine will the first of many outings this year.
MARK LATHAM: Thank you.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Thank you.
Pyne is a Liberal, which means conservative here.
I get the impression Pyne is kind of a stuffed shirt. And four years on, it looks like Latham nailed it, all the way down the line, and Pyne blew it, all the way down the line. Great description, "conga line of suckholes". You go, Latham.
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