God's Plan

if god had a plan, the bank would most likely turn it down! Rolling Eyes

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Funny you should mention divine guidance and financing. George Carlin's got a bit about a God who is all-powerful, all-knowing -- and yet always needs money. Omnipotent, but just can't hang on to a dollar...

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Or, as that rich idjit Bono put it, "The God i believe in ain't short of cash, Mister."

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Man, even the asinine among the Irish have some wit...

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Terry, you have left out the part where Pharoah first said to Moses and Aaron, "show me a miracle". And his sorcerers mimicked the first few miracles. Pharoahs heart was becoming very puffed up. And do not forget the times that Pharoah took back his words to the Hebrews that they could leave. Even when he finally allowed them to get out of the city, he changed his mind and sent his horsemen to chase after them. Pharoah had no intention to let them go ever. Hebrew original translation of harden is to strengthen. Pharoah and the Egyptians had over 20 gods and he intended to call on every one of them to use against God. Sorcerers and mystics also and he intended to call on each one of them against God. Pharoah did not believe that the God of the Hebrews could do a miracle. Well, he found out that the Hebrew God had more miracles up his sleeve than his own sorcerers. This was a thing between Pharoah and God. A long standing denial on the part of the Egyptians. For 400 years the Hebrews cried to their God for deliverance. Do you think the Egyptians did not have a chance to understand The Living God? And henceforth generations of Egyptians stand clear of the Hebrew God and it is for their betterment. For thru the chastisement of the Egyptians many might be saved.

So his heart may be strengthened, but if so, strengthened in opposition so that God will prove to the Egyptians He is the Lord God.... this is further shown by Paul's commentary on this subject....

For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."

People who demand a miracle to prove of Gods existance just might not like what they get.

If you demand of God to prove something, beware, he just might do it.

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The ten plagues of Egypt happened to effect the Hebrews also, at least the first 3 did.
And in the Tribulation period 3 of the Egyptian plagues will be occurring again.
Plague 6 = grevious sore = 1st vial.
plague 1=Nile becomes blood=2nd vial.
plague 9=darkness=5th vial.

The 10 plagues of Egypt........... opposing Egyptian gods.
1. water into blood........... hapi=god of the nile
2. frogs........... eqti
3. lice............ kheper=god of beetles and flies
4. flies............ kheper
5. murrain............ apis=sacred bull
6. boils............ imhotep=physician god, magic,healing.
7. hail............ nut=sky goddess
8. locusts............ seth=god of crops
9. dark............ ra=sun god
10. first born............ pharoah=believed he was a god.

And remember Pharoah was first warned before each plague, except the lice plague and darkness there was no warning. Plagues 7 + 8 Pharoahs servants wanted him to let the hebrews go. And some of the servants who did believe escaped away.
God keeps his grace upon men so they do not perish. God simply removed his grace from the face of pharoah. Which in turn caused pharoah to strengthen in his resolve.
Does this scripture not show the strength and resolve of Pharoah long before the Exodus:

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Exd 1:16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see [them] upon the stools; if it [be] a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it [be] a daughter, then she shall live.

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Exd 1:22 And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.

Egyptians demanded work to be done without the tools to do so just as a means to punish the hebrews.

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Exd 5:16 There is no straw given unto thy servants, and they say to us, Make brick: and, behold, thy servants [are] beaten; but the fault [is] in thine own people.

God intends to release all who are in bondage who cry out to him, and the one who causes bondage will be subject to the wrath of God.

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Hbr 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

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If god had had a plan, don't you think he would have included a manual?

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hobit, you have had everyday of your life and a 2000 year history of the Bible to understand the plan of repentence on your part, forgivenss of Gods part and redemption into eternal life on the part of the intercessor for God, Jesus.
If you do not believe the sign that God sent being in the form of a man, perfect and died sinless, what sign will you believe? Testimony from ages verifies Jesus was a living man who died and was resurrected and ascended into heaven.

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Well, let's see...
The Torah (called the "Old Testament" by the Christians) is a collection of poetry, Mesopotamian mythology, and Hellenistic politcal allegory. The New Testament is an arbitrarily selected collection of heavily edited pseudo-historical documents, and apocolyptical literature, hevily redacted and porly translated into contemporary languages. You want me to put my belief in that? Shocked

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Ruach wrote:

If you do not believe the sign that God sent being in the form of a man, perfect and died sinless, what sign will you believe? Testimony from ages verifies Jesus was a living man who died and was resurrected and ascended into heaven.

There are indications that accounts of the ressurection are later additions to the new testament. Dominic Crosson has suggested that they date from the seventh or eighth decades of the first century. These were likely included to make Christianity (more accurately referred to as the "Jesus Movement") more competitive for converts in the Hellenistic world. The most popular mystery religions centred around deities who were born from virgins, died, and were resurrected after three days in the underworld. Paul, an educated man, likely included these attributes to the Jesus story as "icing on the cake" to induce conversions from other mystery cult members.

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Paul did not likely include .........

Paul was a witness to the blindness in himself when he was struck blind by God because of the persecution of Christians. Acts 13.
Paul was a witness and an original apostle to the teachings of Jesus.
Paul had so much devout faith and knowledge and belief he endured suffering almost to the point of death many times being shipwrecked over 7 times in his spreading of the gospel.
There is nothing false about the direct testimony of Paul.

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Acts 14:9, "and having stoned PAUL, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead."

Do you not think the stoning alone would have turned Paul away from the spreading of the gospel? He would take death for he saw the resurrected Christ and the miracles and the healings, and the wisdom of God in the flesh.
But PAUL said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned.
So even though Paul was beaten and imprisoned, what does he do.....
And PAUL, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures. Because Paul was stressed in the spirit. This is a man filled with the HS. Evidence. For any other man would give up.

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Ruach wrote:

Paul was a witness to the blindness in himself when he was struck blind by God because of the persecution of Christians. Acts 13.

Acts was written in the later 80s. Paul was long dead by then.

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Paul was a witness and an original apostle to the teachings of Jesus.

Have you ever actually read the NT? Paul never met the Christ fgure when he was alive. Paul's version of Christianity is purported to have arisen from some sort of seizure or psyuchotic hallucination. Not that convincing, if you ask me.

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Paul had so much devout faith and knowledge and belief he endured suffering almost to the point of death many times being shipwrecked over 7 times in his spreading of the gospel.

Again, according to acts, and according to a heavily redacted section of acts.

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There is nothing false about the direct testimony of Paul.

You are aware that the authorship of several of the Pauline letters is quite uncertain, aren't you?

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Acts 14:9, "and having stoned PAUL, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead."Do you not think the stoning alone would have turned Paul away from the spreading of the gospel? He would take death for he saw the resurrected Christ and the miracles and the healings, and the wisdom of God in the flesh.
But PAUL said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned.
So even though Paul was beaten and imprisoned, what does he do.....
And PAUL, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures. Because Paul was stressed in the spirit. This is a man filled with the HS. Evidence. For any other man would give up.

Again, quoting a source written much later than the death of the individual described, and that has underwent a great deal of redaction in the period 100-600CE to offer "proof" is just silly.

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You bored, HB?

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Yup. Ten minutes to go before I head out to the Dojo. Very Happy

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Have a big time, Boss.

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Working with the new 5th kyus, teaching them to free-spar. Leads to a much bruised hobbit.

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I have no idea what you are referring to HB, but give as good as you get!

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Ruach wrote:

Terry, Hebrew original translation of harden is to strengthen.

Can't you see what Ruach is trying to tell you, Terry.

If the Bible says something that you don't like -- or that makes the god of the Bible look bad -- what you are supposed to do is to change the meaning of the word or words so that things work out in favor of the god.

Jeez, you are being so hardheaded in not realizing that is the proper way to handle these kinds of things.

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The Tanakh is also heavily redacted. Scholars have deduced a series of editors over the centuries, the Yahwist school, the Elohist, a subsequent redactive melding of these traditions, the Deuteronomic, and a Priestly all occurring over the course of about six centuries.

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it all boils down to free will.............

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