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ETHANOL FUEL SUBSIDY ALLOWED TO DIE

 
 
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 04:17 pm
As of Jan 15 2012, the 30 year old fuel ethanol subsidy hqas been allowed to elapse. As a farmer I have my opinions but Id like you to DISXCUSS THIS PLEASE.
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 04:18 pm
@farmerman,
good riddance. may it rest in peace...
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 04:26 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

As of Jan 15 2012, the 30 year old fuel ethanol subsidy hqas been allowed to elapse. As a farmer I have my opinions but Id like you to DISXCUSS THIS PLEASE.


Great, so now we as consumers need to pay even more for it since the laws requiring ethanol use are still in effect. The ethanol industry is a prime example of the harm that tends to come when broken/corrupt political systems try to dictate how the markets will work, and dictate what we citizens consume. This is no better than what we saw with the Soviets, and we know how that turned out. The American corn ethanol industry is bad for america, bad for the people of the world, and bad for the Earth, the only people who gain are the farmers because of the government caused increase scarcity of food grains. This harm causing endeveour never would have happened without the force of government, and is yet another in a long list of examples for why we the citizens need to take a hatchet to government......and soon.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 04:27 pm
@farmerman,
Wasn't there some major bitching about Obama offering subsidies to a, was it a solar cell producing company?

Were those subsidies continued over 30 years?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 04:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
Corn ethanol has expired, there are plenty of other sources from which ethanol may be made (switchgrass, post extracted sugar cane, CORN STALKS , swamp willow, algae, etc etc). The problem with the ethanol corn subsidy was that it was a special "treat" by a DEM congress and a GOP president who was conservative on only certain things.
.
As a farmer, weve had to compete with ethanol production for our cattle feed. Because of the ethanol"run" and the subsidy, the growers were seeking out non-food buyers of corn FIRST.
Your prices of meat and corn syrup etc have been going up as a result.

Farmers love this death of the subsidy. I get a few tons of feed blown into my Fibredome this week. Ive been paying up to 20$ cwt for a corn oats molasses mix. Before the local ethanol run began about 4 years ago, we paid 10$. Govt was responsible but we need to recall that it was both parties that were bought.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 04:50 pm
@farmerman,
Dead you say? Take it out to the crossroads at midnight of the next full moon and pound a stake through its heart.

Hawkeye makes a good point on the effect on prices, but first, there is nothing but price that is going to curb the American taste for SUVs and crewcab pickups used to move one driver from place to place. Also, I believe there was supposed to be an elimination of tariffs on imported ethanol, like from Brazil. Brazil has a much more cost effective process involving sugar cane - at least when sugar is in surplus.

Now, there's an idea. Jack up the tariff on sugar imports so they're forced to turn out cheap ethanol.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 04:51 pm
@JTT,
These were more like "non recourse debentures" guaranteed by the govt and they were invested without much savvy. Obamas guys fucked up royally on this,
I think there should be investigations a lot stronger than those going on. Where are the newspapers or other media on this? Whatever happened to investigative Reporters ( I think both sides want to keep us pablumated and quiet)
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 04:51 pm
@farmerman,
As long as the laws remain in effect that gas must be at least 10% ethanol farmers will continue to get their windfall that comes to them via government corruption, as the increase in grain prices that these laws cause always swamped the subsidy in lining the pockets of the farmers. You boys will hardly even notice the loss of the subsidy.

EDIT: those who invested in Ethanol plants will take a hit, or so I have heard, and in some cases these investors are farmers. There are too many plants, as they built out assuming that the government would demand 15% ethanol gas, which is not likely to happen now that the truth is widely known that corn ethanol is a bad bad idea.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 04:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
Itlll be the other way round. I expect grain prices to level off because theres no subsidy on corn and ethanol doesnt have to be made from corn.

And the ethanol requirement is 20% by 2030. That **** needs to be taken away because the science behind ethanol production shows that, without the subsidies, there was no way it was gonna be a cost saver, nor will it favor the environment.
Algae diesel, nat gas, and propane are better future fuels .
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 05:01 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
And the ethanol requirement is 20% by 2030.


Does anyone think that this will ever happen? I dont think so. Money works in Washington only to a point, these boys cant buy their way through the political problem of citizen outrage at the food prices....the pitch forks will win over cash bribes every single day of the week and twice on Sunday.

EDIT: we are already pushing production past sustainable levels, and even if we could keep current levels of production it will not be many more years before we can no longer produce enough food to sustain the human population of earth. Those who push grain ethanol do not have a snowballs chance in hell of keeping hungry humans from consuming the contents of the grain silos. Any government which insists upon standing in the way will be run through the blade.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jan, 2012 05:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
For instruction on what will happen when the food grains run short look at what has happened in California now that the water has begun to run short.....the citizens get what they need, the farmers don't get what they were promised . Numbers always win in the end, and there are a lot more non farmers than there are farmers. Corn Ethanol is only good for less than 1/10th of 1% of Americans, there is no way their will wins out over the other 99.9% of us
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2012 02:09 am
I don't know much about this law or the subsidies. This summer I drove across the northern United States and I couldn't believe the lack of diversity in crops. It was corn from the start to the end of the drive.
I'd assume this was because of the subsidies, no?
Do you think Hemp will ever be used as a viable option in the US? There are many farmers growing it here and the numbers are growing.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2012 03:27 am
@Ceili,
Mostly, we use synthetics like nylon or polypropalene. Sometimes just cotton for light duty like clotheslines.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2012 04:29 am
@Ceili,
Ive seen hemp clothing. Kinda like linen? I have a bunch of linen shirts for summer wear and they are cool but wrinkle easily. eh?
The thing with corn is that the p[rice has already skyrocketed because of the support and because much of the corn that went to food, was going to ethanol. Farmers prices for feed was skyrocketing (Unlike what hawkee was seemingly alluding to, its way high now).So, NOT having the subsidy will probably free up corn and actually moderate or lower the prices of foodstuffs that use corn (Think just about everything).

I looked in the local grain FUTURES and theyve already dropped for corn and oats , the market is loaded with corn in bins. Im sure that farmers will go back to a normal percentage of corn and will increase soybeans in the next year. Thats good because soy needs less intense irrigation
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2012 12:23 pm
Hemp can be used for way more than paper, clothing or rope. Hemp fuel is a viable alternative to most ethanol and carbon based fuel. I don't know what grain prices are here in comparison, but I know corn is mostly grown for food, for people or animals here.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2012 12:31 pm
@Ceili,
Yeah, we know about the uses of hemp. A friend was raising a couple of plants in his back yard till it got so big his neighbor threatened to call the police.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2012 01:00 pm
@roger,
Sad isn't it. The Declaration of Independence was written on hemp. So much for freedom...
Again, do you ever think it will become a viable crop in the US?
I only ask because it seems as if this could be a miracle crop in many ways as it was during the founding of the US. It seems so silly to ban it.

I of course know why it's banned...
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 06:06 am
@Ceili,
dont they distinguish C sativa from C indica? indica is the hemp of old and grows wild in the valley of Virginia and in the Eastern Shore of Md.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 06:15 am
When Washington abandoned the tobacco monoculture, hemp was one of the cash crops he switched to. Of course in typical hippie fashion, "Dudes" were going around in the 60s and 70s claiming he smoked dope. The only dope involved, of course, was the joker retailing that story.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 06:24 am
@Setanta,
what was the FAther of Our Country doing with his hemp?. I cannot see him rolling a big doobie. Its so Unwashingtonian, ya know.?
 

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