@firefly,
DAVID wrote:In my opinion, it was more likely than not
that decedent self administered the Propofol, in a successful effort
to defeat the Dr.'s reluctance n caution.
firefly wrote:Are you aware that MJ was hooked up to an IV and also had a condom catheter bag on his penis?
It would not have been easy for him to get up and move about the room.
R u aware that people can do
a LOT of things,
if thay r sufficiently
MOTIVATED ?
I knew of the IV, but not the bag.
firefly wrote:The scenario of self-administration was not likely.
U fail to consider the effects of
DESPERATION. No one denies that he was desperate to sleep.
firefly wrote:This was anesthesia that Murray gave him by IV.
If Jackson had been awake, and needed more Propofol, Murray would likely have given it to him.
Maybe; maybe not. He said that he was weaning him off of it.
firefly wrote:The doctor in this case was not showing either reluctance or caution--he had been giving MJ
nightly infusions of Propofol--without proper safeguards.
He said that he was weaning him off of it,
such that he had not used Propofol for 3 nites b4 the last one.
firefly wrote:If MJ self administered the final dose of Propofol, while Murray was out of the room, Murray would still be guilty of manslaughter under California law, because he should have foreseen that possibility and not left Jackson alone with access to that dangerous drug--that was his legal responsibility as a physician.
If I were on that jury, I 'd
nullify that law, by voting to acquit.
firefly wrote:Murray didn't just leave the room for two minutes to go the bathroom--that was a lie. He spent about 45 minutes on his cell phone talking to his girl friends, checking his e-mail, and sending text messages--the phone records were part of the evidence in the trial. He was talking to one of his girlfriends when he apparently finally become aware that MJ wasn't breathing. He should have been watching, and monitoring, Jackson during those 45 minutes--he had given him anesthesia.
Not knowing that MJ had pushed the Propofol, be thawt that MJ was only moderately sedated.
firefly wrote:That's the reason this drug is always given in a hospital or surgical suite setting, with more than one medical person in attendance--you can't walk out and leave the patient alone, let alone for 45 minutes while you are busy doing other things.
Do u know for a fact that he was out of the room that long??
firefly wrote:Since you didn't watch the trial, or hear all of the evidence,
I can't understand how you could reach the conclusion that Conrad Murray is not guilty.
There is abundant reasonable doubt of guilt
based on the desperation of MJ to secretly take more sedatives, personally.
firefly wrote:We aren't talking about a physician who recklessly prescribes drugs to someone who then abuses them and possibly kills himself.
We are talking about a physician who departed from all known standards of medical care by administering surgical anesthesia, by IV, in someone's bedroom for the treatment of insomnia, for which that anesthesia is not used or considered medically appropriate, and he did so without having the essential monitoring and resusitation equipment which is necessary to prevent death from that drug.
I think that it was accidental suicide.
firefly wrote:And that's why his patient died. Propofol often causes cessation of breathing--that's why anesthesiologists
must carefully monitor a patient receiving it for surgery, so they can reverse that effect immediately.
If I remember the news accurately, a defense expert attested
that he coud not have died from the slight amount of Propofol that defendant administered.
firefly wrote: The fact that Murray gave Jackson Propofol, at all, including the day he died, was criminal negligence for a physician in that setting. And, to leave a patient unattended, at all, with either an IV Propofol drip, or Propofol easily available in the room for the person to self inject, is criminal negligence for a physician under California law.
I don 't see it that way.
In my vu, secret self administration of additional sedatives = acquital.
firefly wrote:To delay, by about 20 minutes, calling 911, to get proper resusitation equipment for a patient who isn't breathing, is criminal negligence for a physician. To omit telling all of the medical people, both the EMT workers, and the ER doctors, that Jackson had received Propofol, was criminal negligence by a physician because it affected how those medical workers evaluated and tried to resusitate Jackson.
The jury shoud not be invited to
SPECULATE, to guess,
qua whether MJ coud be or woud be brought back to life.
firefly wrote:Conrad Murray did not commit one act of criminal negligence--he commited many. And, were it not for those acts, Jackson would not have died that day. That does make Dr, Murray guilty of involuntary manslaughter under California law. He is substantially responsible for Jackson's death.
Cause of death was MJ, in his desperation; no homicide.
firefly wrote:Murray was so criminally negligent that they really could have charged him with second degree murder under California law, which does not require intent to kill. But, since this is such a high profile case, they probably decided to go with the lesser charge of manslaughter in order to get an easier conviction.
We 'll see what happens.
I deem it judicial error to have allowed the DA to show pictures
of the children to the jury and to argue invoking their names. It denied defendant a fair trial.
That information is both
irrelevant n prejudicial; it does not assist the jury
in
deciding whether defendant committed homicide.
It only
inflames their emotions.
Was there an objection to that?????
firefly wrote:If you had watched the trial, I think you would understand the evidence, and this case, much better than you appear to. Jackson died as a direct result of Conrad Murray's actions--and the prosecution presented a case which really did not allow for much doubt on that score, and the defense really had little to work with to raise reasonable doubt--even the defense experts could not justify or excuse Murray's actions. Trying to blame Jackson for his own death really won't get Murray off the hook, if the jurors really follow the law, because even if Jackson self administered a last dose of Propofol (which is very unlikely), Murray left it available for him, and Murray should have been in the room with him. Murray did a lot of lying
Lying to police after MJ was dead is not an act of homicide;
it is an act of nervousness n fear of criminal or civil litigation.
firefly wrote:in the very long interview he had with the police 2 or 3 days after Jackson's death--and that taped interview was played at trial as part of the evidence the prosecution used to discredit him. Jackson had no reason, at all, to want to kill himself, he'd hired a doctor, Murray, to be sure he'd be given drugs safely, but Murray had lots of reasons to lie when he spoke with the police, he was trying to cover his own tracks and conceal his own criminally negligent behavior--he knew he had caused Jackson's death.
He knew that trouble might be headed down the road in his direction.
David
