Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

So you agree. I get it. You don't have to repeat yourself about agreeing.

Matthew 19
17“Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man asked.

Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, 19honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.’f ”

20“All these I have kept,” said the young man. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Frank Apisa wrote:

So you agree. I get it. You don't have to repeat yourself about agreeing.

You don't get it. It's more complicated than that. Not only is slavery (as you understand it) sinful, all forms of economic exploitation and waste are sinful in various way. It is all summed up when Jesus said, "it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven."

Quote:

Matthew 19
17“Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man asked.


Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, 19honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.’f ”

20“All these I have kept,” said the young man. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Note: Jesus said, "if you want to be perfect," implying that the man has to come to terms with the fact he can't be perfect. Jesus taught in so many ways that people are sinners and have to be loved as sinners, and part of that love includes being saved and redeemed from sin.

So not just slavery but all possessions and riches and indulgences of the world are sin, but we can't all progress out of all sins at the same pace. We each have to go through our own processes of confession, repentance, and sanctification as God allows us. This example of the rich man above shows that he wanted to follow Jesus but "he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth." It's not that rich people are unsalvageably condemned, because salvation is for everyone; but we are all held captive by various forms of worldly/material possessions and pleasures, and many of those things require that others perform labor for us.

Wage labor is slavery where the slaves are held captive by their own desire/need for money to buy things produced by other people's labor. Theoretically we could all be free to perform productive economic labor without pay because we wouldn't need money to receive things that others produce for free as well, but that would be communism, and whenever people try to achieve communism in practice, it gets taken over by others who seek to manage and exploit it in various ways.

That is why the political-economic philosophy of liberty is more like true communism than socialism, i.e. because socialism requires controlling and taxing people to structure their economic behavior; but liberty, taken to the penultimate form, would involve everyone voluntarily performing whatever productive activities they deemed necessary for others to also be liberated from economic obligation.

Nah, I'm just chatting about it as if it couldn't be real.

I’ll call myself - NakedAmbition.

We were young, and her name was pearlylustre, what was I to do?

livinglava wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

So you agree. I get it. You don't have to repeat yourself about agreeing.

You don't get it. It's more complicated than that. Not only is slavery (as you understand it) sinful, all forms of economic exploitation and waste are sinful in various way. It is all summed up when Jesus said, "it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven."

Quote:

Matthew 19
17“Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man asked.


Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, 19honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.’f ”

20“All these I have kept,” said the young man. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Note: Jesus said, "if you want to be perfect," implying that the man has to come to terms with the fact he can't be perfect. Jesus taught in so many ways that people are sinners and have to be loved as sinners, and part of that love includes being saved and redeemed from sin.

So not just slavery but all possessions and riches and indulgences of the world are sin, but we can't all progress out of all sins at the same pace. We each have to go through our own processes of confession, repentance, and sanctification as God allows us. This example of the rich man above shows that he wanted to follow Jesus but "he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth." It's not that rich people are unsalvageably condemned, because salvation is for everyone; but we are all held captive by various forms of worldly/material possessions and pleasures, and many of those things require that others perform labor for us.

Wage labor is slavery where the slaves are held captive by their own desire/need for money to buy things produced by other people's labor. Theoretically we could all be free to perform productive economic labor without pay because we wouldn't need money to receive things that others produce for free as well, but that would be communism, and whenever people try to achieve communism in practice, it gets taken over by others who seek to manage and exploit it in various ways.

That is why the political-economic philosophy of liberty is more like true communism than socialism, i.e. because socialism requires controlling and taxing people to structure their economic behavior; but liberty, taken to the penultimate form, would involve everyone voluntarily performing whatever productive activities they deemed necessary for others to also be liberated from economic obligation.

Ummm...yeah, but my question was, Why do you suppose Jesus did not condemn slavery?

Are you now reversing yourself and saying that "the fact that the god Jesus worshiped said there is nothing wrong with slavery"...did not play a part in why he didn't?

Frank Apisa wrote:

livinglava wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

So you agree. I get it. You don't have to repeat yourself about agreeing.

You don't get it. It's more complicated than that. Not only is slavery (as you understand it) sinful, all forms of economic exploitation and waste are sinful in various way. It is all summed up when Jesus said, "it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven."

Quote:

Matthew 19
17“Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”


18“Which ones?” the man asked.


Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, 19honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.’f ”

20“All these I have kept,” said the young man. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Note: Jesus said, "if you want to be perfect," implying that the man has to come to terms with the fact he can't be perfect. Jesus taught in so many ways that people are sinners and have to be loved as sinners, and part of that love includes being saved and redeemed from sin.

So not just slavery but all possessions and riches and indulgences of the world are sin, but we can't all progress out of all sins at the same pace. We each have to go through our own processes of confession, repentance, and sanctification as God allows us. This example of the rich man above shows that he wanted to follow Jesus but "he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth." It's not that rich people are unsalvageably condemned, because salvation is for everyone; but we are all held captive by various forms of worldly/material possessions and pleasures, and many of those things require that others perform labor for us.

Wage labor is slavery where the slaves are held captive by their own desire/need for money to buy things produced by other people's labor. Theoretically we could all be free to perform productive economic labor without pay because we wouldn't need money to receive things that others produce for free as well, but that would be communism, and whenever people try to achieve communism in practice, it gets taken over by others who seek to manage and exploit it in various ways.

That is why the political-economic philosophy of liberty is more like true communism than socialism, i.e. because socialism requires controlling and taxing people to structure their economic behavior; but liberty, taken to the penultimate form, would involve everyone voluntarily performing whatever productive activities they deemed necessary for others to also be liberated from economic obligation.

Ummm...yeah, but my question was, Why do you suppose Jesus did not condemn slavery?

Are you now reversing yourself and saying that "the fact that the god Jesus worshiped said there is nothing wrong with slavery"...did not play a part in why he didn't?

If you're not going to read and respond to the answer, stop posting the question.

livinglava wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

livinglava wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

So you agree. I get it. You don't have to repeat yourself about agreeing.

You don't get it. It's more complicated than that. Not only is slavery (as you understand it) sinful, all forms of economic exploitation and waste are sinful in various way. It is all summed up when Jesus said, "it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven."

Quote:

Matthew 19
17“Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”


18“Which ones?” the man asked.


Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, 19honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.’f ”

20“All these I have kept,” said the young man. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Note: Jesus said, "if you want to be perfect," implying that the man has to come to terms with the fact he can't be perfect. Jesus taught in so many ways that people are sinners and have to be loved as sinners, and part of that love includes being saved and redeemed from sin.

So not just slavery but all possessions and riches and indulgences of the world are sin, but we can't all progress out of all sins at the same pace. We each have to go through our own processes of confession, repentance, and sanctification as God allows us. This example of the rich man above shows that he wanted to follow Jesus but "he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth." It's not that rich people are unsalvageably condemned, because salvation is for everyone; but we are all held captive by various forms of worldly/material possessions and pleasures, and many of those things require that others perform labor for us.

Wage labor is slavery where the slaves are held captive by their own desire/need for money to buy things produced by other people's labor. Theoretically we could all be free to perform productive economic labor without pay because we wouldn't need money to receive things that others produce for free as well, but that would be communism, and whenever people try to achieve communism in practice, it gets taken over by others who seek to manage and exploit it in various ways.

That is why the political-economic philosophy of liberty is more like true communism than socialism, i.e. because socialism requires controlling and taxing people to structure their economic behavior; but liberty, taken to the penultimate form, would involve everyone voluntarily performing whatever productive activities they deemed necessary for others to also be liberated from economic obligation.

Ummm...yeah, but my question was, Why do you suppose Jesus did not condemn slavery?

Are you now reversing yourself and saying that "the fact that the god Jesus worshiped said there is nothing wrong with slavery"...did not play a part in why he didn't?

If you're not going to read and respond to the answer, stop posting the question.

Okay. Post an actual answer...and I'll read it. I've read this other stuff, but none of it actually answers the question.

Frank Apisa wrote:

livinglava wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

livinglava wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

So you agree. I get it. You don't have to repeat yourself about agreeing.

You don't get it. It's more complicated than that. Not only is slavery (as you understand it) sinful, all forms of economic exploitation and waste are sinful in various way. It is all summed up when Jesus said, "it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven."

Quote:

Matthew 19
17“Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”


18“Which ones?” the man asked.


Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, 19honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.’f ”

20“All these I have kept,” said the young man. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Note: Jesus said, "if you want to be perfect," implying that the man has to come to terms with the fact he can't be perfect. Jesus taught in so many ways that people are sinners and have to be loved as sinners, and part of that love includes being saved and redeemed from sin.

So not just slavery but all possessions and riches and indulgences of the world are sin, but we can't all progress out of all sins at the same pace. We each have to go through our own processes of confession, repentance, and sanctification as God allows us. This example of the rich man above shows that he wanted to follow Jesus but "he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth." It's not that rich people are unsalvageably condemned, because salvation is for everyone; but we are all held captive by various forms of worldly/material possessions and pleasures, and many of those things require that others perform labor for us.

Wage labor is slavery where the slaves are held captive by their own desire/need for money to buy things produced by other people's labor. Theoretically we could all be free to perform productive economic labor without pay because we wouldn't need money to receive things that others produce for free as well, but that would be communism, and whenever people try to achieve communism in practice, it gets taken over by others who seek to manage and exploit it in various ways.

That is why the political-economic philosophy of liberty is more like true communism than socialism, i.e. because socialism requires controlling and taxing people to structure their economic behavior; but liberty, taken to the penultimate form, would involve everyone voluntarily performing whatever productive activities they deemed necessary for others to also be liberated from economic obligation.

Ummm...yeah, but my question was, Why do you suppose Jesus did not condemn slavery?

Are you now reversing yourself and saying that "the fact that the god Jesus worshiped said there is nothing wrong with slavery"...did not play a part in why he didn't?

If you're not going to read and respond to the answer, stop posting the question.

Okay. Post an actual answer...and I'll read it. I've read this other stuff, but none of it actually answers the question.

It IS "an actual answer." You just don't want to read it thoroughly and think about it.

No...there is no answer there.

An actual answer would be formed with a variation of, "Jesus did not condemn slavery because..."

None of that stuff you wrote fits into that.

Stop pretending you have answered...and actually answer the question.

Or ignore it...which is probably your best move.

Slavery was, and always has been, a very BAD thing...for the slave. Having one's spouse or kids sold to someone else is not a pleasant thing. Not sure why you think it was.

Slavery, as outlined in the Bible, is as disgusting as any other slavery, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for thinking otherwise.

Slavery, as outlined in the Bible, is as disgusting as any other slavery, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for thinking otherwise.

The others could be kept slaves forever.

My guess...as has been offered earlier is that Jesus never condemned slavery because the god of the Bible specifically said that slavery was fine with him. The god of the Bible says that you can own and trade in slaves...so why would Jesus condemn it?

So I take it you agree that the reason Jesus did not condemn slavery is because the god of the Bible said there is nothing wrong with it.

Wow, i am dumber now.