57
   

Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

 
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2021 05:50 am
@Jasper10,
These guys are a better guide to Buddhism that any text. They aren't true Buddhists (they believe in someone called El Cantare), but they understand better than most Buddhists can explain.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YAHL11oOgCk
The Buddha believed in freeing oneself from the cycle of death. As a creature of nature, you die, again and again and again. The Buddha lived in a weirdly padded life until he managed to see suffering, sickness, and especially death. Now, I don't share his conclusions about there being no self, but far more important were his ideas about overcoming the delusions of the mind. Specifically, he taught that Mara, or earthly illusions, distract one from seeking truth in this life. Fear often keeps us in a state of misery. And joy often distracts us as well, by keeping us from questioning our lives.

Jasper10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2021 11:04 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
Thanks I will take a look…The fundamental point I was making is that most sects of Buddhism claim that SELF does not exist…Yeah that’s one HOPE…but it’s not the only HOPE…….It amazes me how many people get brainwashed by Buddhism…..which is just a “split consciousness” practice….hence dualism…
Jasper10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2021 11:37 pm
@Jasper10,
Buddhism is based upon 0,1 and 1,0 logic output possibility HOPES only and is closely connected to NEGATIVE nihilism which concludes that God and SELF don’t exist due to the HOPE that 0 and 1 are the same.

POSITIVE nihilism considers the additional logic output possibility HOPES of 0,0 and 1,1 as well which concludes that God and SELF do exist due to the HOPE that 0 and 1 are not the same.



0 Replies
 
PoliteMight
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2022 09:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Because how do you think those monuments and buildings was built ?

Love ?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2022 04:32 am
@PoliteMight,
PoliteMight wrote:

Because how do you think those monuments and buildings was built ?

Love ?


So work had to be done...and for that reason, Jesus did not condemn slavery?

Interesting thought! You must think Jesus was a moron.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2022 06:43 am
@Frank Apisa,
Jesus was a Jew.

The Jews condemned slavery. But couldn't stop it. They knew that the rest of the world was evil, so they talked about it in small ways, and advocated against it mainly by trying to make it fair. Sorta "the Jews over here aren't whipping their slaves and giving them Sabbath off, why aren't YOU treating your slaves right."

The funny part about this article is thar it's a guilt trip from the secular and Muslim world, the same world that enabled slavery for untold thousands of years. Rome? The majority of people were slaves, which is why it was great shakes to be called "citizen" of Rome. It meant you weren't under its servitude.

But it gets better. Extra-biblical commentary about the tower of Babel talks about pregnant mothers being forced to work on it. And there's an overall air of compelled labor. It wasn't slavery so much as almost mind control level coercion. They talk gradually turning the nations into a tyranny to turn people away from God. The Jews don't participate but Nimrod is one of their relatives so they're kinda writing about this incident.
The Jews also mention the darkest moment of their history. Basically, where they themselves become slaves (they weren't necessarily building pyramids, but Ten Commandments has them building Rameses' city). It's implied that most of them weren't used as skilled laborers but grunt workers, who made brick and hauled it in place. Then we get basically the biblical equivalent of this.


Moses has enough and punches out Pharaoh, wait no wrong anime. But he does do this...



We have the Messiah mentioned the same way.

Quote:
16Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, 17the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:

18“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me,
because He has anointed Me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”


The captives are not only prisoners but also slaves. Btw, they year of the Lord's favor is likely an indirect reference to the year of Jubilee. During this year, the Jews freed the enslaved. All of the enslaved. This happened every 50 years.

If you're gonna talk about Jesus not speak out about slavery, keep in mind that this was a problem addressed on a regular basis. But Jesus came to free people from spiritual slavery, and his followers helped build this world over the next hundreds of years, reforming Rome itself.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2022 08:08 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Jesus was a Jew.

The Jews condemned slavery. But couldn't stop it. They knew that the rest of the world was evil, so they talked about it in small ways, and advocated against it mainly by trying to make it fair. Sorta "the Jews over here aren't whipping their slaves and giving them Sabbath off, why aren't YOU treating your slaves right."

The funny part about this article is thar it's a guilt trip from the secular and Muslim world, the same world that enabled slavery for untold thousands of years. Rome? The majority of people were slaves, which is why it was great shakes to be called "citizen" of Rome. It meant you weren't under its servitude.

But it gets better. Extra-biblical commentary about the tower of Babel talks about pregnant mothers being forced to work on it. And there's an overall air of compelled labor. It wasn't slavery so much as almost mind control level coercion. They talk gradually turning the nations into a tyranny to turn people away from God. The Jews don't participate but Nimrod is one of their relatives so they're kinda writing about this incident.
The Jews also mention the darkest moment of their history. Basically, where they themselves become slaves (they weren't necessarily building pyramids, but Ten Commandments has them building Rameses' city). It's implied that most of them weren't used as skilled laborers but grunt workers, who made brick and hauled it in place. Then we get basically the biblical equivalent of this.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuNwiSNwz9Q[/youtube]

Moses has enough and punches out Pharaoh, wait no wrong anime. But he does do this...

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GJleW4TCQM0[/youtube]

We have the Messiah mentioned the same way.

Quote:
16Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, 17the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:

18“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me,
because He has anointed Me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”


The captives are not only prisoners but also slaves. Btw, they year of the Lord's favor is likely an indirect reference to the year of Jubilee. During this year, the Jews freed the enslaved. All of the enslaved. This happened every 50 years.

If you're gonna talk about Jesus not speak out about slavery, keep in mind that this was a problem addressed on a regular basis. But Jesus came to free people from spiritual slavery, and his followers helped build this world over the next hundreds of years, reforming Rome itself.



You agree. Jesus DID NOT CONDEMN SLAVERY.

I'm just wondering why.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2022 09:48 am
@Frank Apisa,
Why is it you think he didn't?

He publicly proclaimed that it was his mission to set captives free.

And he did.The modern world is a direct result of westernization, which (despite the influence of secret groups like the Illuminati and the Rothschilds) has become increasing free. 2000 years ago, you'd be a house slave for some Roman family living in Europe. 1000 years ago, you'd be a Viking/Muslim's sex slave from one of their conquests. 300 years ago, you'd be strongly encouraged to have the same job as your parents. Today, you increasingly have a choice about what you want to do with your life. You can literally get paid to game all day. I have no idea why that's a productive job, any more than social media influencer, but hey, that's a testament to our freedom that even worthless jobs are open to us.

Now, this is somewhat undone by "enlightened" secular society and its gig economy and its illegal immigrants who compete with $15/hr jobs by working for peanuts.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/09/03/is-immigration-really-a-problem-in-the-us/employers-exploit-unauthorized-immigrants-to-keep-wages-low
Quote:
...but it’s also true that 5 percent of the labor force is comprised of unauthorized, deportable workers who aren’t fully protected by U.S. labor laws. Unauthorized workers are often afraid to complain about unpaid wages and substandard working conditions because employers can retaliate by taking actions that can lead to their deportation. This gives employers extraordinary power to exploit and underpay them.

Directly caused by the secular left's support of illegal immigration. We're not "racist" against illegals. We know what we're looking at is slavery.

Why didn't he say anything about slavery? Well, we don't know that he didn't, because of "offscreen" moments in the Bible. But we do know that his disciples acted against this.

Quote:
1 Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother,

To Philemon our dear friend and fellow worker— 2 also to Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier—and to the church that meets in your home:

3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers, 5 because I hear about your love for all his holy people and your faith in the Lord Jesus. 6 I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ. 7 Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the Lord’s people.

8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of love. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus— 10 that I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains. 11 Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me.

12 I am sending him—who is my very heart—back to you. 13 I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. 15 Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— 16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord.

17 So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. 18 If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. 19 I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back—not to mention that you owe me your very self. 20 I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. 21 Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask.

22 And one thing more: Prepare a guest room for me, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayers.

23 Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. 24 And so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke, my fellow workers.

25 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.


Critics of the Bible harp on the fact that he sent the slave back to his master. But did you notice the gigantic guilt trip here?

Quote:
Various traditions pick up where the New Testament left off and find Onesimus as the bishop of Ephesus, having been ordained by the apostles. However, his newfound Christian faith brought him under fire and he was arrested in Rome and sentenced to death after preaching about the beauty of celibacy. He was cruelly tortured and then beaten to death.


Moral of the story? Don't preach about celibacy. Other moral? Slaves were actually freed under Christianity, and this is held up as an example for future Christians.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2022 09:59 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Do you honest to God believe that there are groups called the Illuminati and the Rothschilds???
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2022 02:20 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

Why is it you think he didn't?


Because if Jesus did...people like you would be quoting passage and verse with him doing it...rather than beating around the bush as you are.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2022 08:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
:makes tsundere face:
I never beat around the bush! It's not like I... (etc)

I gather you've never had any experience telling people not to do something. Especially children.
No they wouldn't. There are certain teachings that Jesus's followers tend not to put up with. If Jesus directly told people not to own slaves... they would probably treat it much the same way as the second amendment.
"Oh but well-regulated means strangled with red tape!"

No, a well-regulated militia is one that is organized. And before you ask, a militia is not a military. Militia are armed citizens.
Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The point of this amendmemt is that while there is a military to protect the country from invasion, and in fact an intelligence bureau or two, to protect from espionage, treason, and the like, the founders envisioned a situation much like was happened when Britian took over America in its early days. Troops staying at people's houses, just taking stuff without any written cause for suspicion, disarming the public in order to oppress them.

An organized group of armed citizens is necessary for a free country, so the right of the people (not the government, not the military, the people) to armed shouldn't be infringed.

Likewise, had Jesus said anything in the Bible, people would be like, "That was a typo, Jesus meant to free slaves from the bondage of being without a master." ( Yeah I know, crackpot logic there) As was, during the height of slavery in the South, many slaves were given only a Slave Bible (a heavily stripped down version with no books that they thought might encourage them to revolt). " You know what? Even that much was enough to get them to think about wanting freedom. Not only that, a number of abolitionists from Christian communities also supported their freedom. The Bible's message inherently anti-slavery.

That Jesus said nothing and let the Bible speak for itself was probably better for everyone. If he had said something, it probably would have been treated like love you enemy or turn the other cheek.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2022 02:50 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

:makes tsundere face:
I never beat around the bush! It's not like I... (etc)

I gather you've never had any experience telling people not to do something. Especially children.
No they wouldn't. There are certain teachings that Jesus's followers tend not to put up with. If Jesus directly told people not to own slaves... they would probably treat it much the same way as the second amendment.
"Oh but well-regulated means strangled with red tape!"

No, a well-regulated militia is one that is organized. And before you ask, a militia is not a military. Militia are armed citizens.
Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The point of this amendmemt is that while there is a military to protect the country from invasion, and in fact an intelligence bureau or two, to protect from espionage, treason, and the like, the founders envisioned a situation much like was happened when Britian took over America in its early days. Troops staying at people's houses, just taking stuff without any written cause for suspicion, disarming the public in order to oppress them.

An organized group of armed citizens is necessary for a free country, so the right of the people (not the government, not the military, the people) to armed shouldn't be infringed.

Likewise, had Jesus said anything in the Bible, people would be like, "That was a typo, Jesus meant to free slaves from the bondage of being without a master." ( Yeah I know, crackpot logic there) As was, during the height of slavery in the South, many slaves were given only a Slave Bible (a heavily stripped down version with no books that they thought might encourage them to revolt). " You know what? Even that much was enough to get them to think about wanting freedom. Not only that, a number of abolitionists from Christian communities also supported their freedom. The Bible's message inherently anti-slavery.

That Jesus said nothing and let the Bible speak for itself was probably better for everyone. If he had said something, it probably would have been treated like love you enemy or turn the other cheek.


The reason Jesus did not condemn slavery is because the god he worshiped said very clearly that there was nothing whatever wrong with buying, selling, or owning slaves.

That is the reason Jesus did not condemn slavery.

But once again, thank you for agreeing that Jesus DID NOT CONDEMN SLAVERY.
.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2022 05:50 am
@Frank Apisa,
Why do you think it is, Frank? Do you have an opinion about what the answer is to your OP question?
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2022 05:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
I seem to remember God telling Moses to say "Let my people go."
And when the slaveowners refused, he kinda sent 10 plagues to them.

(Whether or not Jesus publicly condemned slavery, you can't accuse God of this)

And as soon as Genesis 1:27, we are told that we are made in God's image. If we are God's, then race-based slavery is not justified. Still, economic slavery continued to exist. Why? We live in an imperfect world where righteous people for a long time were not in the majority. The same hypocrites that accused Christians of not being against slavery never did anything to stop it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery

https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_slavery

Quote:
Despite various atheistic populations having a significant amount of slavery in both the present and the past, atheists commonly engage in moral equivalence by decrying slavery in the Bible - particularly the Israelites owning slave and Christian slaveholders mentioned or alluded to in the New Testament. Voltaire also had little problem with a slaving ship being named after him, despite mocking slave owners in Candide. In addition, various atheistic Enlightenment philosophers either supported slavery or otherwise failed to condemn it, many of whom are later falsely credited with helping to end slavery.


Quote:
Moreover, within Western civilization, the principle impetus for the abolition of slavery came first from very conservative religious activists – people who would today be called ‘the religious right.’…this story is not ‘politically correct’ in today’s terms. Hence it is ignored, as if it never happened.”


Oh, and bonus round. In addition to slavery, atheism caused forced labor.

https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_forced_labor
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2022 08:03 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

Why do you think it is, Frank? Do you have an opinion about what the answer is to your OP question?


I have posted my guess several times in this thread, Snood...including in the post to Bulma immediately preceding this one of yours.

Jesus would have NO REASON to condemn slavery, because the God he worshiped said very clearly that there was nothing whatever wrong with buying, selling, or owning slaves.

Not the kind of god I would "worship."
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2022 08:07 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

I seem to remember God telling Moses to say "Let my people go."
And when the slaveowners refused, he kinda sent 10 plagues to them.

(Whether or not Jesus publicly condemned slavery, you can't accuse God of this)

And as soon as Genesis 1:27, we are told that we are made in God's image. If we are God's, then race-based slavery is not justified. Still, economic slavery continued to exist. Why? We live in an imperfect world where righteous people for a long time were not in the majority. The same hypocrites that accused Christians of not being against slavery never did anything to stop it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery

https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_slavery

Quote:
Despite various atheistic populations having a significant amount of slavery in both the present and the past, atheists commonly engage in moral equivalence by decrying slavery in the Bible - particularly the Israelites owning slave and Christian slaveholders mentioned or alluded to in the New Testament. Voltaire also had little problem with a slaving ship being named after him, despite mocking slave owners in Candide. In addition, various atheistic Enlightenment philosophers either supported slavery or otherwise failed to condemn it, many of whom are later falsely credited with helping to end slavery.


Quote:
Moreover, within Western civilization, the principle impetus for the abolition of slavery came first from very conservative religious activists – people who would today be called ‘the religious right.’…this story is not ‘politically correct’ in today’s terms. Hence it is ignored, as if it never happened.”


Oh, and bonus round. In addition to slavery, atheism caused forced labor.

https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_forced_labor


HERE is what your god said about slavery...no matter what you "seem to remember."


"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff


In the meantime, as I have written several times in this thread, if you want to read the OP question as, "Why is it not recorded in the Bible that Jesus ever condemned slavery?"...fine with me.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2022 12:32 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff


You're forgetting that I read the Bible.
1. No slaves are purchased native to Israel, in times when Israel's borders were closed.
That is the effective equivalent of going to another country to buy an exotic pet. And if the country nearby doesn't have slaves, this is like driving hundreds of miles to buy something. The further the drive, the more time guilt has to set in. This is the point. You're focusing on the allowance, and not on the other things. That there were a number of standards of the treatment of slaves that were in place to mitigate their suffering.
2. Let's read the parts before this for context, shall we?
Quote:
39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant:
40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee until the year of jubilee.
41 And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.
42 For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen.
43 Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.

They are debt servants. They have potential to buy themselves out. They keep mentioning waxing rich and waxing poor. These are literally slaves based on economics. Btw, the word "chattel" wasn't in this Bible.
3. Perpetual wasn't that perpetual.
Also same chapter as the part about slaves.
Quote:
10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubilee unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.
11 A jubilee shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
12 For it is the jubilee; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.
13 In the year of this jubilee ye shall return every man unto his possession.


What do they mean to return a man to his possession? Just like it sounds. The slaves are freed. The debts are also cleared. Btw, this isn't only ppl who worked 50 years. This includes a slave bought in year 48 just before the jubilee. They too are set free.

Quote:
55 For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.


The Jews, unlike the Egyptians, set up a tradition where all slaves in Israel were set free. See if you can wrap your head around this. A young slave is bought a day before the year of jubilee. The next day, he is a free man. This is not slavery, this is institutional manumission.

Oh no, I got it wrong. The Jews were a bunch of racist fucks.

But they paved the way for an idea of freeing slaves after enough time went by. And as time went by, the distinction between Jewish and non-Jewish slaves did diminish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_slavery

Quote:
The major change found in the Talmud's slavery laws was that a single set of rules, with a few exceptions, governs both Jewish slaves and non-Jewish slaves. Another change was that the distinction between Hebrew and non-Hebrew slaves began to diminish as the Talmud expanded during this period.


It says that if non-Jewish slaves converted, they could usually count on being freed.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2022 02:04 pm
The religion of Christianity was formulated years or centuries after the death of Jesus. Alan Watts commented that when the religion was being formulated, there was a problem of where Jesus fit in. He said they ended up kicking Jesus upstairs, that is they made the religion supernatural, completely disassociating Jesus from the natural world of reality. The Jesus that we think of is a composite made to conform with the consciousness and misinterpretations of a number of men. Assuming that Jesus was a mystic, we can extrapolate that whatever he was trying to explain was misunderstood over and over and over again as happens in all religions. What we end up with in Christianity is the result of the piling up of numerous misunderstandings about what Jesus was trying to convey. This is bound to happen in all second-hand religions where personal experience is shunted aside and belief predominates.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2022 02:12 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Quote:
"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff


You're forgetting that I read the Bible.
1. No slaves are purchased native to Israel, in times when Israel's borders were closed.
That is the effective equivalent of going to another country to buy an exotic pet. And if the country nearby doesn't have slaves, this is like driving hundreds of miles to buy something. The further the drive, the more time guilt has to set in. This is the point. You're focusing on the allowance, and not on the other things. That there were a number of standards of the treatment of slaves that were in place to mitigate their suffering.
2. Let's read the parts before this for context, shall we?
Quote:
39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant:
40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee until the year of jubilee.
41 And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.
42 For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen.
43 Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.

They are debt servants. They have potential to buy themselves out. They keep mentioning waxing rich and waxing poor. These are literally slaves based on economics. Btw, the word "chattel" wasn't in this Bible.
3. Perpetual wasn't that perpetual.
Also same chapter as the part about slaves.
Quote:
10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubilee unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.
11 A jubilee shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
12 For it is the jubilee; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.
13 In the year of this jubilee ye shall return every man unto his possession.


What do they mean to return a man to his possession? Just like it sounds. The slaves are freed. The debts are also cleared. Btw, this isn't only ppl who worked 50 years. This includes a slave bought in year 48 just before the jubilee. They too are set free.

Quote:
55 For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.


The Jews, unlike the Egyptians, set up a tradition where all slaves in Israel were set free. See if you can wrap your head around this. A young slave is bought a day before the year of jubilee. The next day, he is a free man. This is not slavery, this is institutional manumission.

Oh no, I got it wrong. The Jews were a bunch of racist fucks.

But they paved the way for an idea of freeing slaves after enough time went by. And as time went by, the distinction between Jewish and non-Jewish slaves did diminish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_slavery

Quote:
The major change found in the Talmud's slavery laws was that a single set of rules, with a few exceptions, governs both Jewish slaves and non-Jewish slaves. Another change was that the distinction between Hebrew and non-Hebrew slaves began to diminish as the Talmud expanded during this period.


It says that if non-Jewish slaves converted, they could usually count on being freed.


So we agree. Jesus never condemned slavery...or at least never did it in a way that it was recorded. And the god of the Bible considered owning and trading in slaves to be moral and correct.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2022 03:32 pm
@Frank Apisa,
We don't agree at all!!!

God's people were living in the shadow of literal Babylon. Child sacrifice, necromancy, weird sexual practices (not the kind like a threesome, the guro kind), and slavery were all a thing.

What would happen if 6you abolished slavery in your country as part of your religion. Slaves from other countries will head there. Pretty soon, you're at war with all of those countries. So they only made the rule for Jews.

Also. We have a God who legit wanted to set everyone free, conbined with a bunch of hypernationalist Jews that were unable (and indeed still are unable) to consider any culture beyond themselves. Getting them to not be enslaved and not enslave each other was major progress. Getting them to even consider setting free non-Jews if they converted was an outright triumph.
 

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