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Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2021 03:56 am
@The Anointed,
The Anointed wrote:

Correct! The demons have more sense than the atheists. The demons know that God exists and they know their ultimate fate and they shudder and tremble at the thought of it.


YOU do not KNOW that any gods exist. YOU blindly guess that one god exists...and that it is your god...the one described in that "scripture" you blindly guess to be a description of that god...of what pleases it and what offends it.

Oh, well. Better than Alice in Wonderland, I guess...although maybe not.

Thanks again for you help.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2021 10:19 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
YOU do not KNOW that any gods exist.

I wish I got a vote on what I know. But that's life, Frank knows.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2021 11:00 am
@Leadfoot,
ill take that as a no ,frank.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2021 01:50 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Correction! We do not know that anything DOES NOT exist. One of the great philosophical problems is how to disprove something's existence.

The only way that seems to work is when a group tells you up and down that something exists, they have a clear secret agenda, and if pressured at gunpoint they admit the deception.

Btw, this does not work for Christianity. Christians often give up a high-paying job to follow Jesus, sometimes being tortured or killed (this tends to happen in less developed countries). What is the hidden agenda, where is the hard sell, and where is the sudden admission of falsehood?

We do have proof that God or gods exist.
https://www.pravmir.com/top-10-common-atheist-arguments-fail/
It's like this, there is proof of God's existence immediately, in the same way there's proof of civilization. It would be far more difficult to say civilization (or God) does not exist as you would have to disprove everything to the contrary. For example, just to name one, how do you exist. Or here's another, unlike many theists, I don't object to evolution. What is involved in making a species that evolves? Quite a bit actually.

Jesus says this bizarre saying about exorcising a spirit, having a house swept clean, and having a bunch of evil spirits move in. This is particularly strange until you understand that atheists are the clean-swept house. And like the house evil visitors tell them lies about God. The demons possessing an atheist tell them such things are superstitions of the past. But the cognitive dissonance is a pretty clear sign of mental confusion.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2021 02:04 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Correction! We do not know that anything DOES NOT exist. One of the great philosophical problems is how to disprove something's existence.

The only way that seems to work is when a group tells you up and down that something exists, they have a clear secret agenda, and if pressured at gunpoint they admit the deception.

Btw, this does not work for Christianity. Christians often give up a high-paying job to follow Jesus, sometimes being tortured or killed (this tends to happen in less developed countries). What is the hidden agenda, where is the hard sell, and where is the sudden admission of falsehood?

We do have proof that God or gods exist.
https://www.pravmir.com/top-10-common-atheist-arguments-fail/
It's like this, there is proof of God's existence immediately, in the same way there's proof of civilization. It would be far more difficult to say civilization (or God) does not exist as you would have to disprove everything to the contrary. For example, just to name one, how do you exist. Or here's another, unlike many theists, I don't object to evolution. What is involved in making a species that evolves? Quite a bit actually.

Jesus says this bizarre saying about exorcising a spirit, having a house swept clean, and having a bunch of evil spirits move in. This is particularly strange until you understand that atheists are the clean-swept house. And like the house evil visitors tell them lies about God. The demons possessing an atheist tell them such things are superstitions of the past. But the cognitive dissonance is a pretty clear sign of mental confusion.



Nonsense!

You are asserting that a god exists. The full burden of proof falls on you.

I am not asserting that no gods exist.

I have no idea if any gods exist or if no gods exist.

Neither do you. The real difference between us is that I acknowledge that I do not know...and you do not.

The bullshit about "...proof of God's existence immediately, in the same way there's proof of civilization" is so lacking, I am surprised anyone would even attempt to sell it.

There may be gods. There may be only one god. That god may be the abomination from the Bible.

And of course, there may be no gods.

Stop kidding yourself that it is self-evident. (I say the same thing to people who claim it is self-evident that there are no gods.)

Stop kidding yourself that ANYTHING suggests it is more likely that there is at least one god...than that there are no gods. (I say that same thing to people who suggest it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.)

Every indication is that one cannot come to "There is at least one god"; It is more likely that there is at least one god than that there are none; There are no gods; or It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one...

...using logic, reason, science, or math.

Every indication is that it just cannot be done.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2021 09:39 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Wrong!

Asserting a God exists is like asserting the sky is blue. You do not need to prove this because it is self-evident.

God is creator of the universe, according to religious text. Universe exists? Don't need to prove this.

God is creator of nature, according to religious text. Nature exists? Don't need to prove this.

Why not? Because these are definitional. God = creator of (whatever)

What burden of proof there may be involved is "Was God the creator, or was it someone else?" But you see, I do not care about this. If someone or something is the creator of such things, I shall call that person, force, or concept God. Even if such is actually more like the Force.

But, you say, "the universe doesn't require a creator." That assertion requires burden of proof.

You see this?

https://s3.dutchcrafters.com/product-images/600-600/pid_49084-Amish-2-Straightback-Chair--790.jpg

This is called a chair.

If you can prove to me that an item, any item, can spontaneously be created, then I see no reason not to accept this bullshit assertion that the universe doesn't require a creator. Until that is the case, nope, you don't get to pass the buck. This chair is made by DutchCrafters.

While you are correct in stating an agnostic position (we do not know whether it was a classically defined deity, or something entirely different), we do know that whatever cause is responsible for creation of nature or the universe is in fact responsible. There is no such thing as uncaused creation.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2021 11:10 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
I agree that definitive proof is not needed one way or the other.It’s not given anyway.If definitive proof is not going to be given then the only other route is logic output possibilities which brings us to half logic or full logic.

As far as creation is concerned……..something causes the expansion/contraction of the universe .Modern day science can’t get beyond black holes and singularities.There is clearly a controlling force that causes this expansion/contraction (TOGGLING).

All sciences are interconnected..,.therefore we should experience toggling in the mind …and guess what …we do……

A better understanding of consciousness is needed.

PRESENCE observes the expansion/contraction and is independent from it.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2021 11:41 pm
@Jasper10,
Most present modern day science and individuals thinking/reasoning can’t get beyond the 4 off logic output “toggling” (expansion/contraction) possibilities it would appear and is therefore trapped on the “hamsters wheel”.

One can have very complicated equations if you wish but 0 and 1 do the job just as well.

HaHa.

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2021 03:12 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Wrong!

Asserting a God exists is like asserting the sky is blue. You do not need to prove this because it is self-evident.

God is creator of the universe, according to religious text. Universe exists? Don't need to prove this.

God is creator of nature, according to religious text. Nature exists? Don't need to prove this.

Why not? Because these are definitional. God = creator of (whatever)

What burden of proof there may be involved is "Was God the creator, or was it someone else?" But you see, I do not care about this. If someone or something is the creator of such things, I shall call that person, force, or concept God. Even if such is actually more like the Force.

But, you say, "the universe doesn't require a creator." That assertion requires burden of proof.

You see this?

https://s3.dutchcrafters.com/product-images/600-600/pid_49084-Amish-2-Straightback-Chair--790.jpg

This is called a chair.

If you can prove to me that an item, any item, can spontaneously be created, then I see no reason not to accept this bullshit assertion that the universe doesn't require a creator. Until that is the case, nope, you don't get to pass the buck. This chair is made by DutchCrafters.

While you are correct in stating an agnostic position (we do not know whether it was a classically defined deity, or something entirely different), we do know that whatever cause is responsible for creation of nature or the universe is in fact responsible. There is no such thing as uncaused creation.


If you think you can assert that a god exists...and have no burden of proof to bear...you are just not intelligent enough for a discussion like this.

Have you seen any good movies lately. Perhaps we can talk about that.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2021 03:46 am
@Jasper10,
When we come to the realisation, which is, that which can never be created and can never be destroyed has become this generation of the universe and all the life forms herein and is the collective consciousness of all that the eternal, which has neither beginning or end, has become, we have no need of a better understanding of consciousness.

“Quantum physicists discovered that physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating; each atom is like a wobbly spinning top that radiates energy. Because each atom has its own specific energy signature (wobble), assemblies of atoms (molecules) collectively radiate their own identifying energy patterns.

Excerpts from the following link.

https://deghys.wordpress.com/2016/08/02/nothing-is-solid-everything-is-energy-scientists-explain-the-world-of-quantum-physics/

If you observe the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void. The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of “INVISIBLE ENERGY”, not tangible matter.

Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like "A GREAT THOUGHT" than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

The GREAT THOUGHT is the collective consciousness of all that it has become.

It is the divine reality of the universe, the eternal spirit from which all being originates, and to which all must return at the close of each period of universal activity.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2021 04:33 am
@The Anointed,
Hey...you don't have to convince me that there is a connection between the cosmos;the quantum and the body/mind....all sciences are interconnected is my view.

I'm aware of the "toggling" principles in all three.How does matter stick together if there isn't balanced toggling forces at play?

My view is that there are clearly electromechanical forces in the cosmos...at the quantum level and in the physical body including the biological computer brain which is connected to consciousness types.

Black holes and singularities aren't the start of everything.My view is that there isn't a start or an end as you say...…the whole system appears to be all encompassing and balanced and caters for all belief systems..... Amazing….

Most modern day science is being left behind because it can't or wont transition to the new era of science of PRESENCE/SELF and CONSCIOUSNESS types.

The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2021 05:05 am
@Jasper10,
I could say that the chair I built had a beginning, (As a chair) although all that I built it from has always existed in one form or another, but the chair itself which I later burned and reduced it to ashes, still exists in spacetime.

The same as every generation of the universe is still out there in their own position in spacetime and can be visited by a fourth dimensional being.

And when referring to the fourth dimension, I am speaking of the Minkowskian notion of time as being the fourth dimension. As in the fact that we can move forward and backward, [One dimension], sideways, [Two dimensions], up and down, [Three dimensions], and through time; [Four dimensions], and not that which is called 4- dimension Euclidean space.

There is no such thing as the dead past, to 'The son of Man' who, unlike his parent, 'The Lord of creatures', is the Lord of space and time.

For Just as mankind, 'The Lord of Creatures' had developed within the bodies of our animal ancestors, the 'Son of Man' who, according to our erroneous concept of one directional time, is still currently developing within the pregnant and sinful androgynous body of EVE= mankind , who she has become, and yet many are they, who have received a visitation from He, who Eve was prophesied to bear, even while still in the Garden of Eden.
0 Replies
 
 

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