6
   

"Compete in a global economy...."

 
 
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 06:14 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Whatever happened to just educating kids, and teaching them how to be critical thinkers?


Yeah, why let them be just like their parents, right, DD?
We have set the churches free in this land, beyond the influence of reason only to be dominated by them... It is no wonder that capitalism and protestantism grew up together... Each has its own limited use for reason, but neither has any eyes for the future... All previous economies were marked by their socialistic aspects, with the most primitive being the most socialistic and the most democratic... We have had capitalism as a reality for only about 500 years, and in that time it has come near to destruction of the world's rosources and people... It has rubbed some cultures and people right off the face of the earth... This behavior is not the result of reason..

The influence of religion over the affairs of government, which under a democracy ought to be the most rational of human activities, has instead spread so far as to make all our efforts come to nothing... The influence of religion on our government is not greater here than it was in Ancient Egypt, or Rome, or Greece, nor is it less; but it is more insidious, and more obnoxious since what people are given to expect from government is reason...

We do not generally expect the hand of fate to govern all our affairs, but so much that should be governed by government is left to fate, as religion is, that reasonable activity and effort is neglected and even despised... Scientists tell, for example, of global warming; but what is the point of scientists if they can be so easily shuffled off when they tell the religious and the capital minded what they do not wish to hear??? We cannot expect our chidlren to behave rationally when the whole society is acting irrationally... When they see the appeal to emotion actually govern the affairs of mankind because it puts people in positions of authority who do not belong there, and when those who really govern the government have no reasonable restraints, but do everything and anything allowed, or worse, reject reason altogether as the religious must, then the young can only take the examples given to them...
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 06:22 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
There's no doubt that we're moving closer to federal control over education. Why do you think they want control over it?

Control of stuff is what attracts politician-types to politics. I guess that covers the "why" in general terms. That said, President Obama has recently distanced himself from "No Child Left Behind", and has relinquished a lot of control to the States. Credit where credit is due.

Another aspect of the "compete in the global economy" line is mass psychology. Global competition or not, there's a good case to be made that good education leads to good standards of living. That's a carrot to motivate people. But carrots are not enough for the education lobby, so they add a stick: "If you don't get good grades, you won't just do as well in life, Indians will take your job away!" It's nonsense, of course, but it's arguably motivating, and that's why people might use the line.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 06:54 am
@Fido,
Just last night I read an article in National Geographic about the teen age brain. About how risk taking and peer influence is so important, about the evolutionary necessity of it. You might find it interesting: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/teenage-brains/dobbs-text.

I agree that play is the work of childhood and I have long been bothered by the "build a better baby" movement. I also agree that too many kids are required to jump through fiery hoops to earn their parent's approval.

Quote:
I have encouraged my children to be are literally on their own in education


I'd like to hear more about how you are doing this. Do your kids attend school? Do you fret over their performance or not? Do the teachers think you're crazy? Do other parents think you're crazy? (I ask because I've been there.)

Let me see if I've got this straight: You think the goal of education is to create a group of service class citizens, "slaves" as you call them, who are not smart enough to question their lot in life. That this is what they mean by "compete in a global economy" -- to get our own population to do the type of jobs we are now outsourcing to other countries, jobs that require some skill but not too much thinking. You believe the government wants to pay outsourced work wages to our population, and have them be happy for the work, as a means to keep them in control.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 07:00 am
@Thomas,
There are so many strings attached to Obama's waiver plan that I'm not quite convinced that it is returning any control to the state. I'm still working my way though it but I'm not so sure there's cause for celebration.

I agree that education is important. I'm not sure I agree with the majority about what constitutes a good education, though.

As hard as I try not to be intimidated by the stick I confess that I worry about the beatings.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 08:58 am
@boomerang,
Well I'm going to take a "deeper dive" into this "compete in a global economy" - please continue adding on these non-sensical items - this could be a new thread...
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 10:31 am
@Linkat,
Wait.... what? Am I being nonsensical?

Let me know what you find out after your diving expedition. The next time I hear anyone say that I'm going to ask them to explain what they mean by it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 11:46 am
@Thomas,
You're missing an important aspect of American politics in the last 30 years, which is what has come to be called the culture wars. For at least twenty years or longer, it has been a conservative allegation that left-wing tree-hugger types have take over the nation's public schools. The Bush initiative was a somewhat later part of his agenda, and may well have been added as an afterthought, and also may well have been a sop to the right-wing christians upon whom he had relied.

Regardless of Bush's specific motive, this has been embraced wholeheartedly by conservatives, and especially by reactionaries. I've known reactionaries to allege the behavior of school teachers to be criminal and to constantly allege that they are overpaid, and routinely exceed their briefs. Although conservatives howled for years about unfunded initiatives, they're OK with this one. From the conservative point of view, "No Child Left Behind" is functionally seizing (or at least contesting) a portion of the high ground in the culture wars.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 11:57 am
@Linkat,
Well I'm going to take a "deeper dive" into this "compete in a global economy" and "put pen to paper"
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 02:17 pm
@Linkat,
Oh! Okay. I thought I was being dense again (it's a bad habit of mine).

I look forward to reading what you pen.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 03:15 pm
@boomerang,
That was a good article about the teenage brain - thank you for that, boomer.
Having a teenager, it can be mind boggling at times - to say the least.

As for competing in the global economy, I think that many Americans don't
look beyond the borders of the United States - which is easily done considering the large size of its country. It is changing though and down here in southern California most schools do offer foreign languages - firstly Spanish, but we have several French/American schools here too, in addition
to some other international schools and world history is also part of their curriculum.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 04:20 pm
@CalamityJane,
Speaking of French and Spanish: One of my pet peeves in discussions like this is that politicians always equate education and schooling. Yet, in my personal experience, many of my most educational experiences had nothing to do with school. I am mostly thinking of my travels to foreign countries, including the foreign country I'm getting settled in right now. Why aren't exchanges between young people of different countries at the top of the national education agenda? Maybe because you can't administer a standardized test to check the results afterwards? Come on!
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 04:27 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
One of my pet peeves in discussions like this is that politicians always equate education and schooling.


I agree, Thomas.

Quote:
many of my most educational experiences had nothing to do with school.


And it follows that all schooling, ie. what one learns in school should be reinforced, made effective, by relating each thing learned to real life conditions.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 05:58 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
But why? How is that going to help us compete in the global economy?

I personally don't think knowing math and science is enough.
In fact, they're not really anything if there is no creativity or innovative spirit behind them.
In my opinion, creativity comes from personal freedom,
but we attained our position of global dominance thru making things that actually WORK.
For that, we need math n scientific knowledge (and fonetic spelling).





David
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2011 07:05 pm
@Thomas,
I know Thomas, in Europe student exchanges are much more common than here and I wish there were more programs like these in high school (they have them for college students). I wanted to send my daughter for a year to Germany but she didn't pass the last German exam to get into an equivalent
class in Germany and to lose a year is not do-able at high school level, unfortunately.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Sep, 2011 06:53 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

Just last night I read an article in National Geographic about the teen age brain. About how risk taking and peer influence is so important, about the evolutionary necessity of it. You might find it interesting: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/teenage-brains/dobbs-text.

I agree that play is the work of childhood and I have long been bothered by the "build a better baby" movement. I also agree that too many kids are required to jump through fiery hoops to earn their parent's approval.

Quote:
I have encouraged my children to be are literally on their own in education


I'd like to hear more about how you are doing this. Do your kids attend school? Do you fret over their performance or not? Do the teachers think you're crazy? Do other parents think you're crazy? (I ask because I've been there.)

Let me see if I've got this straight: You think the goal of education is to create a group of service class citizens, "slaves" as you call them, who are not smart enough to question their lot in life. That this is what they mean by "compete in a global economy" -- to get our own population to do the type of jobs we are now outsourcing to other countries, jobs that require some skill but not too much thinking. You believe the government wants to pay outsourced work wages to our population, and have them be happy for the work, as a means to keep them in control.
With my last child, who is now in a high school completion program in the local community college, she was mostly home schooled having little opportunity for interaction with others...She is a work in progress...

With my older child, I discouraged group projects because there were too many lazy asses out there unwilling to hold up their end of things... When met with a group project, I told her to do it all yourself, and give the instructor two sets of homework; one with your own work, and one with the group work, your contribution clearly evident... But in so doing , I hardened her to the need to motivate others to their best effort in order to accomplish larger deeds, so that now she is often inflexible with others as I often was in my work life, demanding specific performance from each... And I have worked with good motivators, and I realize I am not a good motivator, but in time came to recognize that people were a lot like a box of tools, and that you have to work with the ones you have, and in fact, to make the best use of them...

There is no point in expecting perfection from people when no one is perfect... Good motivators often complement an average job to get better performance... I am afraid that my child, those she is intelligent, and still gets great grades, in her work situations reveals her general disatisfaction with life, as I myself did... I could not be good enough myself in my own eyes in my trade because I stood in the shadows of the great, but job performance is only one part of the total picture... It is great relationships that make great forms work... Like that great baseball player Ti Cobb, perhaps, said at the end of his life: I wish I had made more friends.... No less than baseball was ironwork a vicious, dog eat dog existence...

Only one thing could warm up those freezing beam in my memory, or cool those blazing with summer heat, and that would have been companionship which I too often rejected for a better, and more professional job... And my being here to tell you of it is, at least in part, a result of a professional attitude, because I am alive and have all my limbs and have a pension because of attention to detail and the willingness to put my self under a curse for a good job...

People live in , and spend their days in buildings put up by people little different from you, or I, and buildings fall down because of two things: Engineering that does not account for the forces of nature, and poor workmanship... If I had anything to do with it, my buildings never fell down on my account... I did what was required morally and physically to get the job done, and I was competative, even when it hurt me socially; but no one, no greatest individual does anything alone...

That quality teachers most respect, is that quality most required by life, and that is team building, Cliquing... You see; if I were a great motivator, I could have inspired many ironworkers to greatness... In the game of life I won by default because so many did not show up, or otherwise self destructed... It is not a fraction of what I may have done were I able to touch the soul of humanity in each, and pluck the heartstrings of their deepest desires...

Everyone needs recognition... Everyone needs love, affection, caring, and in short, a relationship... Iron is soft, and people are hard... Iron is easily conformed to the will of man, but people have their own paths from which the seldom stray, and never without purpose...That ability to make anothers path my own has always been missing from my life, primarily because I have no defense against the pain of other, nor of my own... I avoid the essential relationship because I bond so easily, and with that, I feel for others, and I hate it, because pain seems to be the universal human condition... And while I have figured out how to over come my own pain and function, even trriumph, the lessons of my experience are lost on most, but their pain is not lost on me..

Excuse my making a short story long once again... Competion is but a part of the whole, and we miss the fact that so many of our most successful are effectively anti social...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Sep, 2011 07:06 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
One of my pet peeves in discussions like this is that politicians always equate education and schooling.


I agree, Thomas.

Quote:
many of my most educational experiences had nothing to do with school.


And it follows that all schooling, ie. what one learns in school should be reinforced, made effective, by relating each thing learned to real life conditions.
Only a fraction of what I have learned had anything to do with school, only because I am autodidactic out of necessity, being too poor financially and ability to rate a public education... I can read any number of books at my own pace, but I cannot keep up to the pace in school... I still refer to some of my college texts at times, and usually studied by way of the glossery while in attendance... With each class handing you four of five books and saying a paper is due on thursday, so act like you know something, is insanity for me... I have just come upon 6 or 7 recent histories of the Iraq and Afghan wars... I doubt that if I can find the time to read them all that I would consider myself learned in the subject, and if we are around in fifty years, they will still be writing about it so long as there are readers... Look at how long Lincoln has been dead, and Napoleon, and Caesar...And some where some one is writing a book about the men or the idea they have of them, and who can ever say they will know the subject for all the words??? The object is to learn more than one forgets, and to learn every day, and to be open to every wisdom though it be spoken by fools... Every school fails the student they do not teach how to learn... That is one thing I know...
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Sep, 2011 07:18 am
@CalamityJane,
Ah - I think you may be right on - in reading what you say it makes complete sense..."I think that many Americans don't look beyond the borders of the United States " - that is most likely where it originated from.

But I do wonder and it is seems this has become a buzz word and has lost its meaning.
0 Replies
 
 

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